Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

With retail. Have you been down D Street lately? Completely fine by me.. When/if the demand hits, they will tear it down and build something else.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Tear down hotels? I doubt it. Boston will absorb as many hotel rooms as developers are willing to build.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Ron Newman said:
Tear down hotels? I doubt it. Boston will absorb as many hotel rooms as developers are willing to build.
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Sorry, I was referring to the above ground parking lot not the hotels.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

ParkerChris said:
With retail. Have you been down D Street lately? Completely fine by me.. When/if the demand hits, they will tear it down and build something else.
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Yeah. Just like they tore down the Aquarium garage when waterfront demand sky rocketed after the Big Dig. Or when they tore down the Congress Street garage as the West End was gentrifying. Or the monstrous, 3-level Commercial Street garage when the North End became yuppified.

Garages don't get torn down. It's taken us 35 years (and counting) to build on SURFACE FUCKING PARKING LOTS in the same neighborhood that are a stones throw from the financial district.

Jass is right. This is a garage project and it sucks.

EDIT: Just reread post and it sounds like I'm venting at Parker. Not intended. I'm pissed at the BCEC for proposing a 1300 car above-ground garage.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

In partial defense, post office square used to be a 4 story bunker, so it can happen, and there are proposals for both congress st. and aquarium garages, so it could happen. But is it likely to happen? Probably not.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

If this D-Street 1,300-car parking garage and hotel plan is going to mitigate for the current multi-acre surface parking lot across the street that MCCA wants to expand BCEC over in the next few years, then I don't see how that isn't progress.

The reality is that silver line and MBTA bus service was insufficiently planned to serve the BCEC patrons and organizers on a regional scale (vs. a shepherding-attendees-from-Logan-and-back scale), so the BCEC will always need parking. Better it placed in a garage nearby with hotel rooms and retail (like a budget micro-Copley Place garage, hotels, and mall) than remaining the "SURFACE FUCKING PARKING LOTS" that are presently there.

Give the developers some credit--they're on the right track.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The BRA will keep us quite busy with demolitions 25 years from now. Below-grade and above ground parking garage construction is besting nearly every other land use in total density but office tower construction in the Seaport / Innovation District.

Here's a view of the BRA-approved garage now under construction on West 1st Street in the :rolleyes: Innovation District.

97JvW.jpg


Here's a view of garage under construction for State Street on A Street in the :rolleyes: Innovation District. This garage has four inactive street walls, no opportunities for retail/civic use. At least for 25 years.

GNHnI.png


Might as well mention above ground parking garages now under way further down at 319 A Street Rear and also at Waterside Place.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

dshoost88 said:
Give the developers some credit--they're on the right track.
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WHAT?!?!? The BCEC bought this land for $6M per acre to build 500 hotel rooms and 1,350 parking spaces.
The previously approved plans called for 585 residential units. So we're bringing:
  • Far fewer than half as many people to the area (figuring that the apartments would avg ~2 per unit and the hotels will rarely reach 100% occupancy).
  • Nearly 3 parking spots for every hotel room. But at least the cars will have nice views since it's a multi-level above-ground garage.
  • Fewer than 100 hotel rooms per acre. Keep in mind that the BCEC claims to need 2700 hotel rooms. So at this rate we're looking at over 30 acres of hotels. (For perspective Fan Pier is 21 acres and Seaport Square is 23).
  • And it only cost taxpayers $33M (so far).
On what planet does this constitute being "on the right track."
Aside: I wrote this post despite being one of the few people who thinks the BCEC was a good move. But removing residential to add low-density hotels and above ground parking is absurd.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

is there a reason these can't be underground now? tunnels? I would think land value would already justify underground garages.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Lack of vision and leadership from the BRA. The whole thing should be turned over to MIT planning department and used as a lab for an urban growth program. They certainly wouldn't fuck it up.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The answer to above ground parking may turn on the parcel height above MSL, the ground water level, and the cost of constructing and armoring underground garages in the flood plain.

Everything vulnerable to salt water will either get moved higher, or substantial costs will be incurred in armoring the vulnerable points.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

AmericanFolkLegend said:
WHAT?!?!? The BCEC bought this land for $6M per acre to build 500 hotel rooms and 1,350 parking spaces.
The previously approved plans called for 585 residential units. So we're bringing:
  • Far fewer than half as many people to the area (figuring that the apartments would avg ~2 per unit and the hotels will rarely reach 100% occupancy).
  • Nearly 3 parking spots for every hotel room. But at least the cars will have nice views since it's a multi-level above-ground garage.
  • Fewer than 100 hotel rooms per acre. Keep in mind that the BCEC claims to need 2700 hotel rooms. So at this rate we're looking at over 30 acres of hotels. (For perspective Fan Pier is 21 acres and Seaport Square is 23).
  • And it only cost taxpayers $33M (so far).
On what planet does this constitute being "on the right track."
Aside: I wrote this post despite being one of the few people who thinks the BCEC was a good move. But removing residential to add low-density hotels and above ground parking is absurd.
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The parking garage is intended to replace the South Lot of the BCEC, which will be built upon during the expansion. Both the hotels and garage are solely a step towards the BCEC master plan. I personally am fine with this because D Street is a dump, and pushing the "convention district" onto D street seems like a fine move.

There will be some residential mixed in, and can't forget that .5 miles down D street lies an every-expanding area of residential Southie. As far as mix-use neighborhoods go in the ID, D street should be among the best.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

stellarfun said:
The answer to above ground parking may turn on the parcel height above MSL, the ground water level, and the cost of constructing and armoring underground garages in the flood plain.

Everything vulnerable to salt water will either get moved higher, or substantial costs will be incurred in armoring the vulnerable points.
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Minus the cost of buying land... Zero.

The developer is being gifted with the land. Remember, the Seaport is a blighted district in desperate need of reinvestment.

ParkerChris said:
I personally am fine with this because D Street is a dump, and pushing the "convention district" onto D street seems like a fine move.
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During master planning, an exercise that took the BRA two years and Massport 1+ years, D Street was presented as the most important pedestrian boulevard. D Street was the only boulevard that would lead all of South Boston to the water's edge. It would require the highest and greatest attention to quality and detail. That "vision," widely publicized by BRA and Massport, was developed by none other than the Chair of Harvard GSD, who had been hired by Massport to develop their waterfront plan.

The Chair of Harvard's Urban Planning Dept coined a number of phrases for D Street's rise as a grand boulevard, including its termination at "D Street Delta."

Both the BRA and Massport capitalized on conceptual renderings developed during this period. And for the decade that followed, post-"Megaplex," with the arrival of BCEC.

From the point of view of urban planning, this made great sense. Look at D Street's unique potential as it leads from Southie to the waterfront. Opportunity squandered.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

What is being squandered exactly? With the revised plans, will D Street never meet these expectations? I understand the frustrations especially due to the master planning efforts, but I still think that this will be a very successful street, above ground parking and all.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

ParkerChris said:
What is being squandered exactly?
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The 585 units of multifamily development that had previously been approved.
How are you missing this? We're swapping 1000 permanent residents for 500 hotel rooms. Again, how are we on the right track?
(And to preempt the argument that the apartments never wood have happened: I know someone at Intercontinental. The BCEC made the offer, and threatened eminent domain because Intercontinental's partners had lined up financing and were moving forward with development of the apartments. That was the impetus for this deal happening so quickly.)
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Doesn't the city actually need the hotel rooms more than it needs the apartments? Housing can go anywhere, but hotels need to be near the convention center and other tourist attractions. The hotels should be made bigger than the current plans, though.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

TallIsGood said:
I think the following were former parking garages:

1 Lincoln (State Street Financial Center)

Post Office Square Park (http://ice-pops.org/boston/post-office-square-parknorman-b-levanthal-park/popup/)

There were a couple 70s or 80s skyscrapers that were built on former garages, but I can't find links quickly.
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In addition to the ones you mentioned, International Place and 500 Boylston/222 Berkeley replaced City parking garages.
 
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