Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[davem]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Is this (Wharf 8, Pier 7) across the street from the parks near parcel E?

That's fish pier. The site is in between Parcel E and the BOA pavilion, where those two boats and the little dock are. If you look on Historic Aerials you can see there used to be a big pier/wharf (difference?) there, it looks like part of it was still there rotting away into the late 90s.

I thought the evolution was pretty cool, it sucks that the watermark takes up most of the frame.

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Not sure what this means, but can't be a bad thing.

'The next area of attention would have to be the South Boston waterfront because of all the development of the South Boston waterfront area, partly spurred by all the transportation improvements, traffic congestion has gotten progressively heavier in that area, more and more companies are moving there,' Mass. Department of Transportation Highway Administrator Frank DePaola said in an interview.

DePaola said the state is considering work on the bridges across the Fort Point Channel, the MBTA is eyeing improved connections to the waterfront from North Station, and Boston is using federal grant money to purchase two ferries for 'better waterfront connections there.'

http://mobile.boston.com/yourtown/news/south_boston/2013/07/amid_glut_of_projects_north_of_boston_massdot_sees_shift_to

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I guess this is the best thread for this news.

Boston Design Center and the Bronstein Center to become the Innovation and Design building, and undergo a three year renovation.

http://bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/2013/07/design_center_getting_redo

Bronstein Center

http://www.jamestownproperties.com/Portfolio/Properties/Boston/Bronstein-Center.aspx

Although they're referenced as two buildings is the Design Center within the Bronstein Center?

 

[FortPointGuy]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Not sure what this means, but can't be a bad thing.



http://mobile.boston.com/yourtown/news/south_boston/2013/07/amid_glut_of_projects_north_of_boston_massdot_sees_shift_to

The old rusted out footbridge could really use some work, especially since its a pedestrian gateway to Fan Pier and Seaport Square. (The Seaport Blvd bridge has a lot of truck traffic on it and is not a particularly peaceful or serene way to cross over.) It seems kind of odd that a half-closed, rusted-out bridge is the walkway to what will be a Marriot Autograph Hotel (Parcel A) and two 20+ story luxury apartment buildings (Parcels B & C) with heavy retail (assuming Seaport Square really gets off the ground).

In same area, would be nice if someone could buy the James Hook lot and put something better than a restaurant-in-a-trailer there. Like maybe something similar to Independence Wharf.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

In same area, would be nice if someone could buy the James Hook lot and put something better than a restaurant-in-a-trailer there. Like maybe something similar to Independence Wharf.

It's only a matter of time before the Hook site is developed. They have been talking about it ever since the fire which was what, 3-4 years ago now?

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^ Oh my, you made me go look and that fire happened in 2008...already five years ago!

 

[joebos]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Curbed and Boston Globe articles about the Innovation District:

Curbed: The Innovation District is not as Innovative as We Thought
Boston Globe: Priced out of the Innovation District

From Curbed:
"The appeal of the Fort Point neighborhood used to be the old brick warehouses that offered a good deal on office space. In the last two years, the rent has increased at least 40%. The existing design and tech firms that made their home here before the neighborhood rebranded itself the Innovation District are now being priced out of the area."

From the Globe:
"MassChallenge, the start-up accelerator that draws scores of entrepreneurs to the waterfront, is in a similar position. MassChallenge had been the one firm driving start-up-level innovation in a newly-built waterfront building, but the organization will be vacating its offices by next summer. Developer Joe Fallon is looking to rent the office space that he has been giving to MassChallenge rent-free, and the accelerator cannot afford to pay market rates to occupy its Fan Pier offices. The Globe’s Scott Kirsner reported last week that MassChallenge will either be moving deep into the Marine Industrial Park or leaving the waterfront entirely."

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

All the Mayor did was shift all the taxpayers stimilus money into the Seaport District on the backs of the Financial district private owners by giving unlimited amounts of Taxbreaks.

So how can the city officials call this innovation when all they are doing is shifting existing tenants out of the financial district like State Street, PriceCoopers, Vertex (from Kendall Square). Looks like the politicans are gaming the system against investors or owners in the financial district.

Been saying this for a while:
How can the city justify BID against the Downtown Landlords but then give taxbreaks to Seaport Developers. The game is rigged.

What is so fucked up is how can these fucking idiots not build a better MBTA System for the Seaport. They can't even get that right.

 

[fattony]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Meh. Who cares what they brand a district as. I'm sick of these articles. I'm sick of the word "innovation". It doesn't mean anything any more. Same with "technology." Everything is a "technology" company now, no matter how low-tech. Unless auto mechanics and accountants are in "technology" then neither are IT people or web developers. They "use" technology and even "fix" technology, but they don't generate new technologies.

Start-ups are fluid. They will move around constantly looking for affordable space. No one could possibly believe that all the new construction in the Seaport was going to be cheap enough for start-ups. We are not going to run out of districts with old, re-purposed buildings anytime soon. And if we keep building, before long all the stuff that is new and shiny today will be low rent stuff in 50 years. Life-cycle of a city.

The biggest treat to Boston's start-up economy is that companies pack up and head to New York, Bay Area, or wherever the next big thing takes root. Boston and Cambridge are making some moves to keep the area attractive to the kind of young people who start companies. We just need to stay on the right trajectory of building housing, improving transit, and making this more of a 24 hour city.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

It seems like the seaport is growing through re-locations and not through actually new businesses to the area. So, are we just shuffling vacancies? IP is looking more and more like a ghost town, for example. If there's a real market demand for seaport office space then fine, build offices... But Innovation will not spring from these new office cubes. And an Innovation Toolshed isn't going to help matters.

Innovation is about talent. Build affordable residences. Lots of them. Promote quality of life improvements to attract and keep that talet. 24 hour transit, later closing times, more liquor licenses for example. It may sound crazy but I firmly believe that the blossoming food truck scene has had a greater impact on the city's innovation potential than any new construction ever will.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^^^
The WORST part about all of this. IS HOW CAN THESE FUCKING IDIOTS not propose a solid transit to make the area more efficient and accessible to secure the area's future success with the amount of taxpayers money being spent. (The Silverline Bus does not cut it especially if your looking to make the Seaport a destination spot) TERRIBLE PLANNING

I actually heard that new start-ups are looking now into Union and Davis Square.

Shepard post priceless (Makes alot of sense)

Innovation is about talent. Build affordable residences. Lots of them. Promote quality of life improvements to attract and keep that talet. 24 hour transit, later closing times, more liquor licenses for example. It may sound crazy but I firmly believe that the blossoming food truck scene has had a greater impact on the city's innovation potential than any new construction ever will.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Curbed and Boston Globe articles about the Innovation District:

Curbed: The Innovation District is not as Innovative as We Thought
Boston Globe: Priced out of the Innovation District

From Curbed:
"The appeal of the Fort Point neighborhood used to be the old brick warehouses that offered a good deal on office space. In the last two years, the rent has increased at least 40%. The existing design and tech firms that made their home here before the neighborhood rebranded itself the Innovation District are now being priced out of the area."

From the Globe:
"MassChallenge, the start-up accelerator that draws scores of entrepreneurs to the waterfront, is in a similar position. MassChallenge had been the one firm driving start-up-level innovation in a newly-built waterfront building, but the organization will be vacating its offices by next summer. Developer Joe Fallon is looking to rent the office space that he has been giving to MassChallenge rent-free, and the accelerator cannot afford to pay market rates to occupy its Fan Pier offices. The Globe’s Scott Kirsner reported last week that MassChallenge will either be moving deep into the Marine Industrial Park or leaving the waterfront entirely."

McMorrow is 100% right in his piece. The Seaport is NOT the best place to have an "Innovation District". It is a great place to put up hotels, corporate towers, residential buildings and attractions. "Innovation Districts" need inexpensive rents, good public transportation and university presence. Allston SHOULD be the focus of any new "Innovation District". The Seaport is badly miscast for the role.

 

[davem]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

McMorrow is 100% right in his piece. The Seaport is NOT the best place to have an "Innovation District". It is a great place to put up hotels, corporate towers, residential buildings and attractions. "Innovation Districts" need inexpensive rents, good public transportation and university presence. Allston SHOULD be the focus of any new "Innovation District". The Seaport is badly miscast for the role.

Startups, design firms, etc already exist in the office building at 119 Braintree, the old factory on Everett St, and the tall building in Union Square. If they could encourage Jack Young out of Allston you could double that amount of office space. Without building a single new thing, subsidies or rent control.

Since New Balance is right next to two of the buildings I mentioned, letting them go taller or more dense in exchange for subsidized office space could also be an idea.

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

...the city will be stuck in endless loop of creating new innovation clusters, and watching as the market devours them

I don't see the problem with this. The objective is complete, which is to stimulate the local economy. Calling it the "innovation district" is just a means to and end. And the great thing is that the word "innovation" can be applied to almost anything. It will always be an attractive district to move to under this name, and maybe will be where the "mature" start-ups head to after spending a few years in Allston or wherever the next cluster appears.

 

[underground]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I enjoy schadenfreude over a failed "Branding Exercise!" as much as the next guy, but this is hardly the end of the world or even a big deal. Boston needs more built space, and it's being built. It doesn't matter if "Innovation" happens in the "Innovation District" or in the spots vacated by the big money established companies that can actually afford to move into the "Innovation District."

I mean, come on. The very idea that we were going to create a zone for innovation is laughable to begin with. "Hey guys! We zoned that spot for innovation so you can finally come up with something innovative. No, not you on that street. That's not zoned for innovation so you have to only use old ideas."

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I don't see the problem with this. The objective is complete, which is to stimulate the local economy. Calling it the "innovation district" is just a means to and end. And the great thing is that the word "innovation" can be applied to almost anything. It will always be an attractive district to move to under this name, and maybe will be where the "mature" start-ups head to after spending a few years in Allston or wherever the next cluster appears.

McMorrows piece should have been written in 2010, when the data was already knowable. It was clear that Fort Point's trajectory and that of the greater Seaport would never evolve to support a fledgling startup ecosystem.

Yes, the buzz attracted development. But the "Innovation District" pretense had a price.

The opportunity cost:

Since 2010, startups across Boston have had no partner at City Hall developing the types of substantive initiatives under way in "innovation cities" worldwide. If people want to doubt me on this, do a Google search to find out what's being done in NY, Tel Aviv, Madrid, etc. McMorrow's piece mentions some things Cambridge is doing.

Since 2010, Boston's waterfront has lacked the vital public dialog about what could be a mindblowing waterfront. Boston's civic and cultural sectors could have been actively engaged in ground floor planning and fulfilling moderate space needs instead of these bogus "innovation centers" approved in each tower. Even commercial spaces in ground floors (retail, restaurant) should have been given more attention.

Try finding anyone in Boston who knows the ground floor plan at Vertex 1 and Vertex 2. Those ground floors should have been carefully vetted to match the significance of this resource, one the public invested dearly in. The "Innovation District" lent cover to approvals that speak for themselves.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I enjoy schadenfreude over a failed "Branding Exercise!" as much as the next guy, but this is hardly the end of the world or even a big deal. Boston needs more built space, and it's being built. It doesn't matter if "Innovation" happens in the "Innovation District" or in the spots vacated by the big money established companies that can actually afford to move into the "Innovation District."

I mean, come on. The very idea that we were going to create a zone for innovation is laughable to begin with. "Hey guys! We zoned that spot for innovation so you can finally come up with something innovative. No, not you on that street. That's not zoned for innovation so you have to only use old ideas."

The problem occurs when the city throws alot of tax breaks towards a Vertex or spends money on an "Innovation Center" in a section where that type of business cannot grow and develop.

That is misspent money.

Put the "Innovation Center" in Allston and you will get better bang for the buck.

 

[underground]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Eh, I'm still not that worried. Outside of unique spots like Kendall Sq, innovation is going to happen where it happens. It just needs empty space to do it in. The Innovation District might not have any start ups, but it's definitely freed up a lot of space for them. So yeah, it might be a circuitous process, and the innovation might not happen where we said it would, but it'll happen so it seems like money well spent (at the moment at least). If anything, the whole process is a lesson in "best laid plans."

Of course there's the issue of giving tax breaks to companies that don't need them, but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The problem occurs when the city throws alot of tax breaks towards a Vertex or spends money on an "Innovation Center" in a section where that type of business cannot grow and develop.

That is misspent money.

Put the "Innovation Center" in Allston and you will get better bang for the buck.

How would we get a bigger bang for the buck? In the Seaport, Boston is stimulating growth around empty parking lots, therefore growing the city on a macro level as rents and property adjust city-wide. That's where the tax-breaks come into play. How is it misspent money?

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

McMorrows piece should have been written in 2010, when the data was already knowable. It was clear that Fort Point's trajectory and that of the greater Seaport would never evolve to support a fledgling startup ecosystem.

Yes, the buzz attracted development. But the "Innovation District" pretense had a price.

The opportunity cost:

Since 2010, startups across Boston have had no partner at City Hall developing the types of substantive initiatives under way in "innovation cities" worldwide. If people want to doubt me on this, do a Google search to find out what's being done in NY, Tel Aviv, Madrid, etc. McMorrow's piece mentions some things Cambridge is doing.

Since 2010, Boston's waterfront has lacked the vital public dialog about what could be a mindblowing waterfront. Boston's civic and cultural sectors could have been actively engaged in ground floor planning and fulfilling moderate space needs instead of these bogus "innovation centers" approved in each tower. Even commercial spaces in ground floors (retail, restaurant) should have been given more attention.

Try finding anyone in Boston who knows the ground floor plan at Vertex 1 and Vertex 2. Those ground floors should have been carefully vetted to match the significance of this resource, one the public invested dearly in. The "Innovation District" lent cover to approvals that speak for themselves.

Boston's problems at city hall have nothing to do as to whether branding an area full of parking lots the "innovation district" was a bad idea. Perception is reality, and companies are moving here. I wholeheartedly agree that the area could have been better planned (although I still think many people will be pleased once Fan Pier through Warf 8 is built-out) especially the ground floor levels, but the topic at hand is the "Innovation District" moniker which has worked thus far. Allston wouldn't have ever been in this discussion if the rents in the Seaport weren't through the roof. How is that a bad thing?