Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Paul lost me when he said one solution would be to subsidize start-ups. Huh?

Also, if you like business tax breaks then Rob Consalvo is your guy in this fall's mayoral election.

 

[joebos]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Boston's problems at city hall have nothing to do as to whether branding an area full of parking lots the "innovation district" was a bad idea.

What?!

Perception is reality, and companies are moving here.

How is perception the reality if there's a public/taxpayer expectation that their money is going towards fostering innovative startup businesses? Especially since we're falling behind other cities in investment in this area. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I just read that NY overtook us in the area of VC investment. If this is true it's pathetic given that Harvard and MIT are HERE, across the river.

I wholeheartedly agree that the area could have been better planned (although I still think many people will be pleased once Fan Pier through Warf 8 is built-out) especially the ground floor levels, but the topic at hand is the "Innovation District" moniker which has worked thus far.

Exactly how has it worked? I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying that worked because it brought in other kinds of development, like luxury hotels and residences (did it even bring in residences yet)?

Allston wouldn't have ever been in this discussion if the rents in the Seaport weren't through the roof. How is that a bad thing?

Seriously?

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

My point, simply, is that this debate is focused on the micro level when the impact behind the branding of the Innovation District will be seen on the macro level. And I would argue that tax-payer dollars should have an impact on Boston's economy as a whole, no?

 

[joebos]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The argument is not just about branding. I'm not convinced that it IS benefitting the city on a macro level. You're drinking the BRA's koolaid. The area is poaching business from Cambridge and the financial district, it has created nothing so far. Maybe I'm wrong. But it doesn't seem like a good use for such valuable property (not that I thought an innovation district belonged there either).

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

The argument is not just about branding. I'm not convinced that it IS benefitting the city on a macro level. You're drinking the BRA's koolaid. The area is poaching business from Cambridge and the financial district, it has created nothing so far. Maybe I'm wrong. But it doesn't seem like a good use for such valuable property (not that I thought an innovation district belonged there either).

Here's the thing -- companies poached to occupy NEW build outs, which leaves their old offices vacant, which adjusts rents, which brings in NEW businesses. This is one small example, but this is the ripple affect that I'm talking about.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

How would we get a bigger bang for the buck? In the Seaport, Boston is stimulating growth around empty parking lots, therefore growing the city on a macro level as rents and property adjust city-wide. That's where the tax-breaks come into play. How is it misspent money?

You would have far more "Innovation" companies moving to Boston and growing if the area that was targeted included more public transportation/had better access to institutions of higher learning/lower rents.

Any farmer knows that crops grow best in fertile soil.

Kendall Square is fertile soil for "Innovation" firms. Allston would be also. The South Boston Seaport/Convention area isn't. These type of firms need universities and scientists on the sidewalk to bump into and make contact. Human contact across many scientific disciplines has been repeated over and over again as crucial for Innovation firms the past few years - - this should not be a new revelation.

Why spend city money trying to fit square pegs into round holes? Use the Seaport to attract businesses that would thrive in the Seaport - Fortune 500 companies looking for a building and location with cache-no one is complaining about that.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^Emerson and Suffolk are only a 15 minute walk from the "innovation" district. Theater, film, and art majors will be able to put on one hour avant-guard shows for workers during their lunch break.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

shmessy, there is no innovation district in berkeley to speak of, and no university, to speak of, in downtown san francisco. and no kendall square in palo alto. (hewlett packard is about a mile away)

 

[underground]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Start ups aren't moving into new construction, but they're happy to move into the spots freed up by big money established companies as they move into new construction. That's the point of the Innovation Tax Credits not being a big deal on an economic level and just being semi comical as we laugh at marketers on a micro level. Maybe Menino should have called it the "Build New Construction for Big Business to Free Up Space for Start Ups" for accuracy, but it doesn't exactly roll of the tongue.

And come on, the idea that the Seaport isn't close enough to transit or the Universities is ridiculous. Sure, at Kendall you can spit out your window and hit an MIT building. But do you really think a 10 minute walk up to South Station and a 15 minute ride up the Red Line is a major hindrance? Come on.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

And come on, the idea that the Seaport isn't close enough to transit or the Universities is ridiculous. Sure, at Kendall you can spit out your window and hit an MIT building. But do you really think a 10 minute walk up to South Station and a 15 minute ride up the Red Line is a major hindrance? Come on.

Can we all agree that the RED line ripping through the centers of Kendall, Harvard, central and Davis along with the rest of the squares is one of the key factors of the Universities-startup success along with creating a very desirable location for young professionals to live.
YES.

Can we all agree that the Seaport is not foot traffic friendly running over from Suffolk to Fan Pier would be a nice long walk. Does the Seaport work with the Silverline bus? A little.......Its transportation.
Davis to Harvard is a nice long walk. I would rather take the red line to Harvard then walk around.

The difference between the Silverline bus & the Hardrail cars---Hardrail cars can fit 50-100 more passengers in and out of the area with much more speed, accuracy & efficiency. (This is what makes major first rate cities very successful)

Jumping on the Orange Line in DTX to Seaport district would be a much better option than Walking on a rainy cold day.
Boston is a nice city to walk around on nice days what about the other 5 months out of the year? Also some people would rather take the transportation to a certain area then walk around instead of walking 10-15 Mins to a certain area only to do more walking.

 

[underground]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

If your argument is based around nitpicking the difference between a wicked easy trip and an easy trip, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[fattony]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

shmessy, there is no innovation district in berkeley to speak of, and no university, to speak of, in downtown san francisco. and no kendall square in palo alto. (hewlett packard is about a mile away)

I'm not sure I understand the point you are making. Are you saying that the Bay Area is full of start-ups and "innovation" companies without needing them to be centralized? Or without needing special subsidies?

Small tech companies do tend to form clusters, but trying to tell them where to cluster up is like herding cats.

 

[mcus29]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Can we all agree that the RED line ripping through the centers of Kendall, Harvard, central and Davis along with the rest of the squares is one of the key factors of the Universities-startup success along with creating a very desirable location for young professionals to live.
YES.

Can we all agree that the Seaport is not foot traffic friendly running over from Suffolk to Fan Pier would be a nice long walk. Does the Seaport work with the Silverline bus? A little.......Its transportation.
Davis to Harvard is a nice long walk. I would rather take the red line to Harvard then walk around.

The difference between the Silverline bus & the Hardrail cars---Hardrail cars can fit 50-100 more passengers in and out of the area with much more speed, accuracy & efficiency. (This is what makes major first rate cities very successful)

Jumping on the Orange Line in DTX to Seaport district would be a much better option than Walking on a rainy cold day.
Boston is a nice city to walk around on nice days what about the other 5 months out of the year? Also some people would rather take the transportation to a certain area then walk around instead of walking 10-15 Mins to a certain area only to do more walking.

I work downtown along the orange line which I'm on most days and enjoy the convenience. There is a large disconnect for me getting to the Seaport, but I don't work in the Seaport. I view the silver line as a bus which I don't see most people wanting to ride. But I think if you're working in the Seaport and need to get there consistently at a certain time it'd be different. At least for me it would. I hate the idea of the silver line remaining a bus long term but I'd ride it if I had to.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

If your argument is based around nitpicking the difference between a wicked easy trip and an easy trip, then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm telling you that the key to the seaport success was completely overlooked. This was a key vital point to make an area a destination area.

Step#1 Before any major developments ever took place. The city, MBTA and the BRA should have mapped out a grid for the underground Hardrails to connect throughout Seaport.

BRA should be scrapped at this point.

The city jewel should be the (Underground T) Which has become outdated

 

[FortPointGuy]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I'm not sure I understand the point you are making. Are you saying that the Bay Area is full of start-ups and "innovation" companies without needing them to be centralized? Or without needing special subsidies?

Small tech companies do tend to form clusters, but trying to tell them where to cluster up is like herding cats.

Agree. Silicon Valley is like Waltham on steroids. I can't imagine anyone on this board driving through and not bemoaning how ugly it is. It's the architectural and urban planning antithesis to Boston/Cambridge/Somerville. But the office space is cheap. VCs live in San Fran, start up people may live there too, but in both cases their offices are generally south toward Palo Alto where Stanford is.

Twitter is in San Fran but they got a tax break to stay there. Companies in SF that get out of the seed stage generally move south.

 

[Arborway]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Agree. Silicon Valley is like Waltham on steroids. I can't imagine anyone on this board driving through and not bemoaning how ugly it is. It's the architectural and urban planning antithesis to Boston/Cambridge/Somerville. But the office space is cheap.

Here's a great article on that very subject that I happened to stumble across just yesterday.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Office space isn't that cheap in Palo Alto. And yes, it's nasty sprawlburbia.

I worked at VMWare for a little bit and they had a big suburban office park campus on an old piece of Stanford Research Park land (mentioned in that article as Stanford Industrial Park). As far as such things go, it was a nice place. Immaculate landscaping, maintenance, etc. Of course if you wanted to go anywhere outside of the office, you had to travel at least 2 miles. Depressing.

But even with the large amount of resources they poured into that office park, they still maintained a San Francisco office to manage their relationships with start-ups. Because that's where the start-ups were.

I'm much happier in Boston than in Silicon Valley.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

fattony,
I was replying to this:

These type of firms need universities and scientists on the sidewalk to bump into and make contact. Human contact across many scientific disciplines has been repeated over and over again as crucial for Innovation firms the past few years - - this should not be a new revelation.

 

[fattony]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

^ I think I get you. There is no need for start-ups to be literally next to MIT. Seaport, Downtown, Davis, Allston, etc are all fine.

I more or less agree. There is something to brainiac/entrepreneur density, but let's not overstate it. If we spread the "innovation economy" to all corners of the MBTA, it would still be a higher brainiac/entrepreneur density than the Bay Area or NYC.

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

What would be everyone's guess as to how many people take public transportation to Kendall vs. driving vs. how many people take public transportation to the Fort Point South Boston Innovation Seaport Parking Lot District?

I may be in the minority but I've never felt Kendall Square to be that convenient to get to - even with a subway stop right there. It seems so spread out. Going to the movies always seems like a haul. Don't know if this is a common sentiment.

My point being, even though I whined about the lack of public transportation into the Seaport, Kendall isn't that much different, either because it's so spread out or b/c everyone drives there.