Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

The silver line BRT isnt going away. You need a bus to Logan, theres no way around this. You need a bus down washington street, it would probably cost more in lawsuit, street redesigns and bitching than to build a golden tunnel.

Instead of arguing about something that can't and won't change, focus should be on parts that can be improved.

-Finish the existing stations to allow for more convenient exits
-Extend the electrical portion of the bus along SL2 before NIMBYS come in and fight the cables.
-Restore SL3 and 4 when the development is done.
-Provide more exclusive ROW down washington ave.
-Give the buses priority at the badly designed intersection between WTC and SLW.
 
Or we can discuss how to convert the service in a timely manner that allows for Bus Service to Logan from another station terminating near the airport. Having the bus service is not cost effective nor is it transport effective for such a large swath of impending development. High capacity LRT or Heavy rail would do this area a world of good. Why spend more money on a failing, unfair silver line when service can be expanded and converted for cheaper with rail?
 
Man, I don't think anything will satisfy this crowd. This is a good plan. We haven't even seen the details and we are jumping down the developers throat. How do you know there will be no street life? And you know, if these get built and there are long stretches of blank walls this will just make the issue clear with people who wouldn't normally care. The area needs time to evolve and you aren't even giving it a chance to be born yet.
 
Or we can discuss how to convert the service in a timely manner that allows for Bus Service to Logan from another station terminating near the airport. Having the bus service is not cost effective nor is it transport effective for such a large swath of impending development. High capacity LRT or Heavy rail would do this area a world of good. Why spend more money on a failing, unfair silver line when service can be expanded and converted for cheaper with rail?


Because as I stated, rail down washington street is not going to happen. We're in an environment where the E-line from Heath to Arborway has been cleared to be paved over, expecting new rail mixed with cars is futile.

The buses can have the same capacity as a trolley. The stations are long enough to have a bi-articulated bus.

How is the service not cost effective? Last I checked, buses are cheaper than trains.

How is the service failing? Last I went, the line was standing room only.

And saying rail cheaper is just a complete lie. Yes, you might save money on the tunnels past Boylston, but the cost of rail elsewhere would easily surpass the savings.


There are CHEAP and quick ways to improve service. I listed some above, such as giving the buses signal priority similar to what ambulances carry. Capacity can be increased with longer buses or connected buses such as this one:
IMG_2780.jpg


An even better improvement would be to help guide the buses in the tunnels, thus raising speeds. You know whats cheaper than laying rail? Painting a white line on the floor and having the bus "see" it and follow it, so the driver doesnt steer. This technology exists and is employed in asia and europe. There are many competing technologies, all under the name "guided busway"
 
Painting a white line on the floor and having the bus "see" it and follow it, so the driver doesnt steer. This technology exists and is employed in asia and europe. There are many competing technologies, all under the name "guided busway"

This is a cool, viable technology. I'll bet it works great.

Good luck selling it to the T's unions.
 
Yeah, those European unions are push-overs. But here in the good ol' US of A unions rule the roost.
 
Because as I stated, rail down washington street is not going to happen. We're in an environment where the E-line from Heath to Arborway has been cleared to be paved over, expecting new rail mixed with cars is futile.

The buses can have the same capacity as a trolley. The stations are long enough to have a bi-articulated bus.

How is the service not cost effective? Last I checked, buses are cheaper than trains.

How is the service failing? Last I went, the line was standing room only.

And saying rail cheaper is just a complete lie. Yes, you might save money on the tunnels past Boylston, but the cost of rail elsewhere would easily surpass the savings.


There are CHEAP and quick ways to improve service. I listed some above, such as giving the buses signal priority similar to what ambulances carry. Capacity can be increased with longer buses or connected buses such as this one:
IMG_2780.jpg


An even better improvement would be to help guide the buses in the tunnels, thus raising speeds. You know whats cheaper than laying rail? Painting a white line on the floor and having the bus "see" it and follow it, so the driver doesnt steer. This technology exists and is employed in asia and europe. There are many competing technologies, all under the name "guided busway"

You of course have a valid point and a very viable option for the Silver Line. I should have directed my frustration more towards the MBTA and their irresponsibility to fulfilling a project from start to finish. I was just more interested in seeing rail in the seaport district sub-ground. Whichever ends up happening - as ive stated before - this project needs to have a heavy analysis and construction of transport infrastructure BEFORE it gets built so dense. It would be so terrible to see this area without ample transport opportunities for future residents and visitors to the area. I don't understand why there is still this ideology that Boulevards and Avenues are the only things needed to bring people in and out of an area. I didn't see anything highlighting the transport opportunities in that PDF file. All I see is a cropped picture of an MBTA silver line bus. I want development in this area just as much as the next person but not if its going to be shoddy with missed opportunities for people-moving & smart growth & planning. Obviously we can't have a utopian city model but we can have an example for others to follow.
 
I agree, the silver line was planned, the seaport district was planned, but at no point did everybody sit down and see the best way to bring it all together.

Id fault the fort point and seaport square developers more than the MBTA though. When the silver line was built, all we had were parking lots, so the only guideline was to build it down the middle, which they did.

The developers however, have the silver line in place, and so should base their development around it, not just as a bullet point in a slide. Of course, the city and state are at fault for not requiring the developer make better use of the transportation provided. Actually, not only should the development be centered around the silver line, but the developers should pay for improvements.
 
IMO the Silver Line in this area was the biggest bit of corporate welfare I have ever seen. The Fairmont is a more deserving project, if not as sexy.
 
Well if you are planning for the area to be a new office, retail, residential, and entertainment center that is dense, how is adding a transit line corporate welfare? This is just encouraging development, not giving corporations money and tax breaks. The Silver Line helps the city and citizens as much as it helps the businesses that move to the SBW.
 
This oughta get the anti-Menino crowd all fired up.

This how we do things in Boston:

Boston.com - March 27
City cites eatery on key waterfront spot

By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | March 27, 2008

Inspectors from the City of Boston yesterday temporarily shut down the popular Barking Crab restaurant on the Fort Point Channel, citing the owners with sanitary violations in the kitchen and possible structural issues in the pilings that support the building.

In what may be a coincidence, Boston Inspectional Services Department officials arrived at the restaurant on the day a co-owner of the Barking Crab complained in a news story about the property owner's announcement of plans to relocate the eatery.

A Barking Crab spokesman told The Boston Globe yesterday that co-owner Scott Garvey wasn't aware of developer John B. Hynes III's proposal to relocate the restaurant off the water and into a new building as part of his waterfront project, Seaport Square. Hynes said he spoke to the eatery's other co-owner, Lee Kennedy, about the move.

Hynes said city officials favored relocating the Barking Crab because its site could then be used to extend the HarborWalk along the channel for public use.

Lisa M. Timberlake, a spokeswoman for inspectional services, said the inspection was unrelated to the publicity over Barking Crab's possible relocation. She said city inspectors were acting on a letter from a female patron that the agency received Tuesday complaining about smoke in the restaurant coming from a woodstove.

"She said, 'The smoke caused our eyes to burn and water,' " and they left because they were nauseated, Timberlake said. A spokesman for the owners said yesterday that the Boston Fire Department had approved the stove's operation last November.

Barking Crab owners and their spokesman would not address the timing of the inspection, except to question it. "At some point, there will be a very interesting story why it was closed down today," said Kennedy.

As for relocating, Kennedy said, "At this point, none of us are interested in moving the Crab to a new building. It wouldn't be the Crab anymore."

Hynes couldn't be reached for comment yesterday.

News of the Barking Crab's possible move was first reported Tuesday in the Boston Herald.

The violations cited by the city yesterday went well beyond the complaint in the letter that prompted the inspection.

In particular, the city charged that raw chicken and hamburger were stored improperly, that there was "cross-contamination" of food, that potatoes were not being washed before cutting, that a dishwasher gauge was not working, that draft beer lines were moldy, that a hand sink was blocked by a barrel, that a ventilation hood was covered with grease and dust, and that there was "improper maintenance of walls and ceilings."

The building inspector questioned the integrity of the wood pilings on which the old structure rests, "and asked for a structural engineering report," Timberlake said.

And the restaurant's certificate of inspection was expired, she said. "We have been trying to work with them for the past few months, and we have not received that information yet."

Finally, Timberlake said, despite the presence of boats on Fort Point Channel, the Boston Redevelopment Authority has not authorized vessels to pull up to the Barking Crab.

"There were a lot of 'failed's on the report," Timberlake said. The restaurant will remain closed "until they comply with correcting the violations and getting their paperwork in order," she said.

A meeting is scheduled this afternoon between city officials and the owners.

Kennedy said he did not want to comment on the city violations until he can sort them out with city officials.

He said about 25 people were waiting to eat lunch there yesterday but had to be turned away. Across the street at noontime at the Daily Catch, it was unusually busy, with almost all tables occupied.

Barking Crab spokesman George Regan said, "If there's any kind of problems we're going to correct them." Asked if the restaurant would reopen today, he said, "I hope so."

Thomas C. Palmer Jr. can be reached at tpalmer@globe.com.
 
John Hynes was interviewed on Greater Boston with Emily Rooney, earlier this week.

They get sidetracked in a conversation on the Barking Crab and church, and there's no new renderings, and he offers no specifics ... well, w/e. Watch, anyway.

http://www.wgbh.org/gb/?item_id=3581635
 
4-9-2008-5-39-19-PM-6971795.jpg


Hynes touts Seaport Square project in South Boston

Peter Van Delft 10.APR.08


SOUTH BOSTON ? Gale International CEO John B. Hynes recently brought his proposal to build a sprawling twenty-plus acre waterfront development project to a standing room only crowd at the James Condon Elementary School in South Boston.

Dubbed the "Seaport Square" project, the plan calls for a build-out of approximately $3 billion over the 20 block area that stretches between Summer Street and Northern Avenue, near the Boston Convention Center and the Fan Pier project. It will feature such mixed use development as retail, residential, and office/business space.

Plans also call for new green space, including two new parks (one measuring two-acres) a skating rink scaled to rival that of New York City?s Rockerfeller Center, two new schools (one private and one a public early learning center), a theatre, Newbury Street-caliber shops and an arts and culture complex.

A video shown at the presentation, narrated by local news personality Natalie Jacobson, described the new "neighborhood" as "the next area for growth in which to live, shop, work, learn, and play."

Providing background on the area in which the project is to be constructed, Director of Planning for the Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) Kairos Shen introduced the night?s presenter and stressed the importance of community input in Seaport Square.

"[The developer] hadn?t submitted a project proposal yet and we advised them not to do one until they?d heard from the community about what kind of project they wanted to see," said Shen. "This is not a meeting where a developer has already decided what?s going to happen. They came here openly and willingly to meet with residents to gather their input."

Beginning his address, Hynes acknowledged the great interest shown by members of the community about the Seaport Square project and elaborated on some of the details of his plan.

"This is quite a great turnout," said Hynes. "I?m glad that residents ? the stakeholders of this community ? have come out today to hear about this project and to give their valuable input. We?ve spent about twelve months working on this proposal with the BRA, and when we presented this to him, Mayor [Thomas] Menino gave us his blessing."

Bought for $200 million by Gale International and Morgan Stanley from media mogul Rupert Murdoch in 2006, the land had once been part of the properties owned by developer Frank McCourt, current owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers baseball team.

Along with the aforementioned features of the potential new waterfront neighborhood, Hynes talked about the creation of the new Harbor Street, which will be built to connect the 25 feet rising from Summer Street to Seaport Boulevard, as well as the addition of two new hotels, a church, a large-scale grocery store, a transportation kiosk equipped with vehicles that will bring people in and out of the district, newly rebuilt sidewalks and the company?s contribution of $5 million to help restore the Northern Avenue Bridge.

But, said Hynes, it will be the people living and working within the community who will determine exactly what the level of success of the project will have.

"We will be bringing in more than 4,000 new residents, including 325 units of more affordable workforce housing," Hynes said. "The project will create 1,500 new construction jobs, but ultimately, there will be 20,000 permanent jobs created by this project. When all is said and done, there will be more than $200 million in contributions made to the infrastructure of this neighborhood."

In addition, said Hynes, the development will raise approximately $50,000,000 in annual real estate taxes and another $40,000,000 in linkage payments to the city. Efforts will be made to attract both businesses and residents from out of state to the neighborhood, he said.

Ideally, Hynes said, construction on Seaport Square would begin later this year, pending community input and permitting. A completion date is scheduled for 2015.

"This is a tremendous opportunity to be one of the best development projects on the East Coast, Hynes said. "This could be and should be the signature symbol of what the new Boston can be, and it?s right here in South Boston. Our obligation is to turn this into the best real estate deal on the planet. We know that we can?t please everyone, but we hope to please most of you."

- The Bulletin Newspapers

Link
 
"We know that we can?t please everyone, but we hope to please most of you."

But it is the 10% who will make the most noise and hold this project back for another 10 years. Is this the best plan for the area? I can't say for certain, but I doubt any progress will be made in the next 5 years. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Is the Seaport District part of South Boston? It seems to be a completely separate entity. Would Seaport Square adversly impact the residential areas of South Boston or is Hynes just paying his respects to Southie in order to lessen any NIMBY elements?
 
Wait, can someone clarify something, I'm confused.

Is Waterside Place the same as Seaport Square?

Which company owns which parcel?
 
I thought Waterside Place was east of Seaport Square (McCourt land), closer to the World Trade Center and Convention Center.
 
seaport_sq_2.jpg

I think Waterside Place will be at the bottom of this pic, over the open part of the highway. Is that correct?
If it gets built at all!
 
Waterside Place will be just "above" the highway in the picture, where all that dirt is. In between Summer and Congress Streets - D St. and World Trade Center Ave. (bridge coming from the convention center towards the water).

And speaking of Seaport Square - they just paved over that last dirt lot.
 

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