Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

^^Seamus, the city isn't paying to have the innovation thing built - they're leasing it from John Hynes for $1.00 a year and not putting in any capital dollars. I think it's costing Seaport Square about $6 million. No public money involved.
 
greenwayguy1982 said:
^^Seamus, the city isn't paying to have the innovation thing built - they're leasing it from John Hynes for $1.00 a year and not putting in any capital dollars. I think it's costing Seaport Square about $6 million. No public money involved.
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Not exactly.

Any requirement by the City has an opportunity cost associated with it that has a public impact. The Boston Innovation Center represents a $5.5 million exaction required by the City/BRA of the property owner in exchange (admittedly or not) for new development rights. As with any opportunity cost, the $$$ spent on this exaction could have been directed elsewhere -- for the benefit of property owner and/or public.

What the public gets from this $5.5 million exaction:

A 5-year lease and a 5-year option for a building that may be replaced by a tower at 10 years, when the site reverts to its owner.

What the public loses:

$5.5 million spent on permanent improvements to Seaport Square.

What are examples of other possible investments? World-class architecture on any new ID construction. Subsidized ground floor spaces for civic uses. Investment in permanent facilities in Seaport Square to support needs of district not ordinarily favored by market.

Personally, I'd probably prefer that the property owner kept the $5.5 million and was held to the highest standard for architecture and ground floor uses. And I'd depend on property taxes (no tax breaks) to pay for area civic needs -- fire, police, school, innovation library/center, etc.

A 5-year lease signals a lack of long-term commitment. Fort Point startups are already discovering that the BRA did not lay any groundwork for them to remain in the district in 10 years... no new building types, no new zoning plan, nothing.

While it's likely pharma, bio/life science and tech corporations may headquarter in the ID, I predict in 5 years the BRA will announce a new vision for the Seaport --- maybe a Destination District, maybe a Meeting District, maybe a Life Sciences District. Whatever private capital is moving to the waterfront at the time will have a colorful BRA Master Plan built around it. Call me cynical, I've seen this movie every 5 years and not just in the Seaport.
 
SeamusMcFly said:
You understand him getting approvals for Filene's and Seaport happened around the same time, and both times with a developer with deep poskets backing him, or at least financiers with deep pockets. Voronado and Morgan Stanley?

He did not make and leave a hole for 4 years and then win approval for a separate not related area.
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I don't think he does understand this, and he definitely doesn't understand what BID means. But I give him credit, he's on a roll with his "blogs" these past few pages.
 
I'm out of order! You're out of order! The whole damn system is out of order!!!

In general he's "right", or at least on the right track. Just needs to focus the aim and anger a bit. Every person with their hand out to the city is demonized as the true problem, when the system is the problem. The system that allows for the handouts, permit flipping, poor final products that we end up with, etc. If someone is going to offer me free money or at least tax breaks.... damn right I'm taking it. I ain't that pious and the developers definitely are not.

A rifle is a precision firing weapon. The buckshot blasts are more suited to a Shotgunman.
 
The Innovation Center foundation looks like it's basically slab on grade. I guess that's because it's temporary?
 
It is a structural slab as a tunnel will possibly be passing under it in the future.
 
The best I can gather is that it will be access to the below grade parking as most of seaport square will be built above levels of parking.

Haven't seen a full set of updated plans for the whole fit out. It's a tunnel that is not there now, but will be in the future most likely. The structure is designed to span it, and all utilities have been coordinatetd to miss it.
 
If the question is, will buildings at Seaport Square be built above one massive (underground) parking garage, yes, that has been the proposal put forth, thus far.
 
SEAPORT........Was bumping last night............The entire city was busy with the Tall Ships in town......

The Greenway was Packed already down to IP.
 
atlantaden said:
The huge underground parking at Atlantic Station works real well!!
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Totally agree. I was very impressed when I was there. And for such a large, cavernous garage, it didn't feel unsafe at all. Something about the lighting and the abundant access points.
 
TheRifleman said:
SEAPORT........Was bumping last night............The entire city was busy with the Tall Ships in town......

The Greenway was Packed already down to IP.
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I spent a few hours down at Fish Pier with my kids yesterday, and it was definitely packed and festive. I don't know what it looks like when the tall ships aren't around, but it worked for this particular weekend. We and just about everybody else took the Silver Line, which also was quick and efficient.

Overall, it was a decent urban experience. The tell in my opinion came from some innocent comments made by my daughter. We stopped first at the Chowderfest, and she was saying that she wished Boston had an area like San Francisco's water front, "with piers and things." I told her every city was different, but there were also parts of Boston she might not have seen before. When we exited the Silver Line at WTC, we walked one block and she immediately said "this is like that part of San Francisco I was talking about!" And in a lot of ways, she was right.
 
Traditional Tenants Could Vacate Seaport
By Jim Cronin

Banker & Tradesman Staff Writer
The architecture and design firms that were a staple client for commercial brokers leasing space in the Fort Point and Seaport areas of Boston are now looking for office space in the Financial District due to rising rents, according to Cassidy Turley FHO.

Now that rents have jumped to $40 a foot compared with $30 in many brick and beam buildings near the South Boston Waterfront and upwards of $50 a foot at Fan Pier, many of the traditional firms that were the bread and butter for commercial brokers are looking to cheaper digs across Fort Point Channel, according to a new report from the Boston-based real estate services firm.

Overall availability has dropped 6.3 percentage points in the past 12 months along the Waterfront, Cassidy Turley reports. However, while it continues to be a hot market, availability in the Seaport is limited for large users, containing just one option larger than 100,000 square feet and four larger than 50,000 square feet, according to the report. These limited options mean asking rents are rising.

Additionally, while there are more options for tenants seeking less than 50,000 square feet, many of those companies are venture capital-backed and do not want commit or invest in long-term leases at this stage. That means the new wave of VC-backed innovation companies that have been flocking to Boston may wind up in low-rise Financial District space where large institutional landlords are more willing to do a short-term deal, the report states.

"The main question is when the tech tenants start going to low-rise space in the Financial District," said Duncan Gratton, principal with Cassidy Turley FHO in Boston.

In Cambridge, rents are still elevated and continue to rise. Significant demand and a lack of available lab space in East Cambridge has caused rents to jump 7 percent in the first half of the year, and asking rents stand at $53.41 a square-foot triple net. And as large users begin turning to new construction and build-to-suits, Cassidy Turley expects rents in those buildings to average $65 to $70 a square-foot triple net.
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http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/news150804.html?Type=search
 
Good thing the boss man owns this building (and another 2 doors down), because I like it here. I'm sure the board is salivating over rents skyrocketing in the area, and available space dropping.
 
SeamusMcFly said:
It is a structural slab as a tunnel will possibly be passing under it in the future.
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Not sure I understand this. During site prep they drove 50 to 75, 25 foot long, pilings into the footprint of this building. Seems they would need to remove them before building a mega garage. Am I missing something?
 
HenryAlan said:
I spent a few hours down at Fish Pier with my kids yesterday, and it was definitely packed and festive. I don't know what it looks like when the tall ships aren't around, but it worked for this particular weekend. We and just about everybody else took the Silver Line, which also was quick and efficient.

Overall, it was a decent urban experience. The tell in my opinion came from some innocent comments made by my daughter. We stopped first at the Chowderfest, and she was saying that she wished Boston had an area like San Francisco's water front, "with piers and things." I told her every city was different, but there were also parts of Boston she might not have seen before. When we exited the Silver Line at WTC, we walked one block and she immediately said "this is like that part of San Francisco I was talking about!" And in a lot of ways, she was right.
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No offense intended to HenryAlan, but I've noticed that when forumers tend to speak positively of Boston developments that are widely regarded as failures or failures-in-progress (the Greenway, Seaport, etc.) they're visiting on festival days when there tends to be much more life in these places than usual.
 
czsz said:
No offense intended to HenryAlan, but I've noticed that when forumers tend to speak positively of Boston developments that are widely regarded as failures or failures-in-progress (the Greenway, Seaport, etc.) they're visiting on festival days when there tends to be much more life in these places than usual.
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As noted in my post:
I don't know what it looks like when the tall ships aren't around, but it worked for this particular weekend.
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I think we all know a place works if it draws people, does not work if it doesn't. What is the magical draw? In this particular case it was a festival event, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of other options. The point to keep in mind is that the space works and works well when people are there. A real failure not only wouldn't currently attract people, but would also not be able to handle the crowd if it did. We can fix the first issue, the second is pretty much permanent (eg Government Center).
 
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