Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

Honestly theres barely any housing in the seaport right now so I think its fine that it will come online right after multiple new housing developments wrap up.
 
bigpicture7 said:
^ or like a smaller, sans-palm trees version of Miami Beach's Lincoln Rd. Mall:

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I've been here and its quite wonderful and was really active. If it's half as successful, it would be a huge win.
 
It's actually amazing that there aren't more of these in Boston. Give me Newbury St., Shawmut Ave, Canal St., Salem St., Broadway in Southie...
 
CSTH said:
It's actually amazing that there aren't more of these in Boston. Give me Newbury St., Shawmut Ave, Canal St., Salem St., Broadway in Southie...
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Canal Street is getting the Pedestrian treatment... I made sure of it. The North Station Area Mobility Action Plan received community feedback on improvements last year and is finalizing their draft now. I spoke defending it at the November meeting and fortunately a lot of people rallied around the idea. Out of 40+ action items across all modes, pedestrianization of Canal Street tied for most support. Now the city's identified short and long-term goals to make it happen.

Canal Street_1 by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Canal Street_3 by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Canal Street_5 by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Canal Street_2 by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Canal Street_4 by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Canal Street_before by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Canal Street_after by Derek Shooster, on Flickr


I think the city's doing a great job planning for this neighborhood given the amount of development happening here. With the buildout of Seaport Square, it would be thoughtful of the BPDA and stakeholders to host a similar Area Mobility Action Plan process.
 
^ hell yes thats going to look really good. Are there any plans to save haverhill st right next door too? Just needs some trees.
 
Discouraging to hear of such broad excitement for a 23-acre "vision" so blatantly lacking in non-commercial uses, civic facilities, cultural uses, significant recreational greenspace and year-round destinations for Bostonians and waterfront visitors who are not able to patronize commercial establishments.

A 200,000 sf Performing Arts Center approved in Seaport Square's PDA #78 was jettisoned with this Notice of Project Change without so much as a whisper from BPDA. Apparently, tenanting a few small spaces across remaining buildings with a few local cultural non-profits will suffice just fine. On a master plan of this scale, "parochial" is being kind.

As for the shop-lined promenade, outside of the central court it is much narrower than appears on the "money shot" (which appears to include greenspace atop building bases). And the NPC reveals the promenade is nearly always shrouded in shadows.

I've made the point before: the Seaport was graced with $8 billion in state and federal investment as a catalyst for development. With land appreciation resulting from public investment, BPDA had a significant responsibility to produce a welcoming public and civic realm for all. Nearly all great cities from New York to San Francisco understand value capture. Here, year after year BPDA-sanctioned profiteering siezes the day.


zcRzpFM.jpg
 
There's no plans for a school or library around here, right? Something traditional like those would go a long way.

I do like that they've apparently cut the cars out of the central square. Old renderings showed cars parked all around the park. New renders don't have much of a park, but there also aren't any roads running between L3–L6.
 
timsox6 said:
There's no plans for a school or library around here, right? Something traditional like those would go a long way.

I do like that they've apparently cut the cars out of the central square. Old renderings showed cars parked all around the park. New renders don't have much of a park, but there also aren't any roads running between L3–L6.
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While Seaport Square was moving through approvals from 2008-2010, a branch of Boston Public Library was presented in the package of civic and public commitments.

Shown here are the Master Developer's responses to public inquiries about "Facilities of Public Accommodation," during approval of the DEIR.

Once the DEIR was approved, these commitments were jettisoned.


jwrQl6Q.jpg
 
Sicilian said:
Discouraging to hear of such broad excitement for a 23-acre "vision" so blatantly lacking in non-commercial uses, civic facilities, cultural uses, significant recreational greenspace and year-round destinations for Bostonians and waterfront visitors who are not able to patronize commercial establishments.
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Mostly i'm just happy that it's not a 6-lane 'boulevard'.

Serious, constructive question: What are some of Boston's existing 'year round destinations for [people] not able to patronize commercial establishments' that you would like to see emulated here?
 
CSTH said:
Mostly i'm just happy that it's not a 6-lane 'boulevard'.

Serious, constructive question: What are some of Boston's existing 'year round destinations for [people] not able to patronize commercial establishments' that you would like to see emulated here?
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As someone who lives near, but not within the Boston metro area there's a spot I try to visit at least once a year: the MFA. However I doubt the mfa is going to be emulated anywhere else in the city. I think boston has a fairly rich offering in cultural destinations as it is. I really don't see the seaport detracting from it, rather it's an opportunity to bring something new to Boston.
 
There's no plans for a school or library around here, right? Something traditional like those would go a long way.
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Library branch would be welcome but since Boston doesn't have neighborhood-based school system a school in this area is pretty pointless. Also anybody who can afford to live in the Seaport can afford a private school for their kid.
 
Sicilian said:
A 200,000 sf Performing Arts Center approved in Seaport Square's PDA #78 was jettisoned with this Notice of Project Change without so much as a whisper from BPDA.
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Four (if you count the YMCA) cultural non-profits have failed to accomplish a thing in terms of building facilities and establishing any kind of a presence on the Greenway. The concert hall planned for Kendall Square is a similarly well-intentioned gesture turned embarrassing flop.

Cultural non-profits have a poor achievement track record as of late (at least in these kinds of grandiose schemes) and seem to get a pass on demonstrating a realistic ability to get the job done. Should they be given yet another chance to likely strike out again, this time in the Seaport?
 
Something thats being missed is that this isn't the last piece of land left in the seaport. Theres still acres and acres of developable land so this project not having a cultural center or library is not the nail in the coffin. I think were moving in the right direction with this parcel creating an engaging public realm and theres plenty of room left to fill in the missing pieces after this is built. The area around GE alone is a massive amount of land that is going to be developed in the future and can have any number of things built there.
 
I can't see any reason to add a school or supermarket to the Seaport with the lack of residents - you're talking only several thousand people living there (and only several thousand more moving there) and few children.

From the Census (probably under-counting), 2015 5-year ACS, for 02210

SEX AND AGE

Total population 2,179
Male 1,214
Female 965

Under 5 years 46
5 to 9 years 13
10 to 14 years 21
15 to 19 years 14
20 to 24 years 192
25 to 34 years 774
35 to 44 years 389
45 to 54 years 315
55 to 59 years 168
60 to 64 years 93
65 to 74 years 110
75 to 84 years 44
85 years and over 0

Median age (years) 35.5
 
JohnAKeith said:
I can't see any reason to add a school or supermarket to the Seaport with the lack of residents - you're talking only several thousand people living there (and only several thousand more moving there) and few children.

From the Census (probably under-counting), 2015 5-year ACS, for 02210

SEX AND AGE

Total population 2,179
Male 1,214
Female 965

Under 5 years 46
5 to 9 years 13
10 to 14 years 21
15 to 19 years 14
20 to 24 years 192
25 to 34 years 774
35 to 44 years 389
45 to 54 years 315
55 to 59 years 168
60 to 64 years 93
65 to 74 years 110
75 to 84 years 44
85 years and over 0

Median age (years) 35.5
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Wow, that seems... low. I would have pegged it a bit higher. Aren't they still planning for 15-20k by 2035 though? less than 15 years away - I don't see why planning for future civic needs now isn't a bad thing.
 
meddlepal said:
Library branch would be welcome but since Boston doesn't have neighborhood-based school system a school in this area is pretty pointless. Also anybody who can afford to live in the Seaport can afford a private school for their kid.
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They've been planning a library branch at parcel G this whole time, haven't they?
 
JohnAKeith said:
I can't see any reason to add a school or supermarket to the Seaport with the lack of residents - you're talking only several thousand people living there (and only several thousand more moving there) and few children.

From the Census (probably under-counting), 2015 5-year ACS, for 02210

SEX AND AGE

Total population 2,179
Male 1,214
Female 965

Under 5 years 46
5 to 9 years 13
10 to 14 years 21
15 to 19 years 14
20 to 24 years 192
25 to 34 years 774
35 to 44 years 389
45 to 54 years 315
55 to 59 years 168
60 to 64 years 93
65 to 74 years 110
75 to 84 years 44
85 years and over 0

Median age (years) 35.5
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that 2015 5-year ACS (American Community Survey) data is just that... it's an average over 5 years. So if the #'s seem low from where you'd think 2016 or 2017 populations would be, that's because they are. Those ACS 5-year estimates are an average of the samples (<1% of population) from 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015. As we all know, the number of housing units and population in that neighborhood has changed dramatically during each of those years (especially in the last few).

It's gonna suck to wait for it, but a true representation of 'current' population conditions and demographics for the Seaport won't happen until the 2020 Census. Expect those #'s to be available around April 2021. :(
 
Once the census comes back theres still going to be plenty of room to build whatever is left that we need. Its an unfinished product at the moment (all cities are), but this more than most. If theres a lot more people living here in 4 years then they can address whats missing and build it. They made a point that they are listening to the people and trying to deliver what they want so if theres a huge outcry for a library theres no reason they cant build one. The argument that some have made that Assembly is a huge success and this is a failure in my opinion doesn't hold up. Assembly is essentially more like a downtown than a financial district. Our FIDI is just about out of room and not many companies need to build a 60 story tower, so this is basically an extension of the financial district, but shorter. Obviously they are not solely building office space, but this is more like an extension of the FIDI than a standalone neighborhood and its being reflected in the approach that they are taking. I think its still too early in the process to deem a success or put a nail in the coffin..yet. In 5 years were going to have a much better idea about what this place is really going to be.
 
'Tis true, it's an extension of the financial district; never thought about that way before. Thanks.

It just won't ever be a true "residential" neighborhood, not with the low number of housing units being built. There won't be enough density and/or the right "feel", if that makes sense. I can't imagine any scenario where a supermarket makes sense, much less a library. A "Foodies"-sized market, perhaps, but even that seems like a stretch, to me. Low density, plus the demographics make it unlikely, in my opinion. My neighbors here in 02210 seem to be college students (who somehow like the long commutes to BU, etc.), middle-aged professionals such as myself, and the rich who are moving into 22 & 50 Liberty, and will move into Pier 4 when completed, and the like.

Highly mobile and active, perhaps only in their homes during the week, heading off every weekend to do this or that (Bob Kraft has 2 units in 22 Liberty, for example, lol). And most of us probably buy groceries every day at the corner market, have them delivered, or eat out all the time.

My neighbors at 437 D Street seem active and eager to be involved in the decision-making going on (they were adamantly against IndyCar, for example), but I don't think many other homeowners will be that way (again, Liberty & Pier 4, specifically). And, renters are historically bad at getting involved.

Of course, I'm speaking only about the "Seaport"; Fort Point has a couple of buildings where neighbors are active; Channel Center, specifically. But, there just aren't that many people living there, even, to make much of a difference. (They are vocal in their opposition to the GElipad, but were less against it once it was decided to not build the landing pad near them.) And, for many of them, their interests end at A Street. (02210 covers Seaport, Fort Point, etc., and ends around West 1st Street. South Boston is 02127.)

The CVS is a nice addition, even though it is smaller than it should be. They have "groceries" but only a limited amount (no fresh fruit like you find in other CVSs, for example). It's good for both residents and workers in the area office buildings.

The next big game-changer is the M parcels (they're tearing up the pavement, right now) and then, of course, the L parcels. L is important not just because of the residential component but because it's the parcel closest to "downtown", etc. Currently just parking lots, it's like a barrier (a moat?) between Fort Point and the Seaport. When completed, it will stitch the two areas together.

My forecast is for the neighborhood to remain the same, even when completed, with little activity on weekends, save for those going to the Harpoon Brewery or events at the Convention Center.

I don't know if I consider it a "failure" if it turns out that way, or a lost opportunity, just that "it is what it is".
 
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