Seaport Transportation

I agree they should have auto guidance in the tunnel that would be a huge improvement to the service as it exists today.

Also in my mind if we ever stopped running buses in the tunnel it wouldn't mean them driving on the roads following the tunnels path I always thought of that as leading to a forced transfer at Silver Line Way although adding a guidance system and running buses and rail in the tunnel would be the best option.
 
Now that Millennium's touted $100m aerial system is dead...
..Millennium has shifted its focus away from the aerial tramway, according to a source with knowledge of the plans. Instead, the firm is throwing its support behind the city of Boston’s Seaport transportation study — which is primarily focused on bus transit.
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...we should probably be talking more here about
South Boston Seaport Strategic Transit Plan
and the Oct 2nd presentation

My plan: ban passenger vehicles from Congress street (similar to NYC's ban on 14th St in Manhattan) and concentrate all surface bus there.
 
Arlington said:
Now that Millennium's touted $100m aerial system is dead...

...we should probably be talking more here about
South Boston Seaport Strategic Transit Plan
and the Oct 2nd presentation

My plan: ban passenger vehicles from Congress street (similar to NYC's ban on 14th St in Manhattan) and concentrate all surface bus there.
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Why Congress and not Summer? I believe Routes 4, 7, and several shuttles currently use Summer and none use Congress.

I'm not sure either street would need to remove all passenger vehicles to provide an effective bus lane.
 
fattony said:
Why Congress and not Summer? I believe Routes 4, 7, and several shuttles currently use Summer and none use Congress.
I'm not sure either street would need to remove all passenger vehicles to provide an effective bus lane.
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Ok, maybe Summer. (given that Congress is actually hooked up to the TWT, it probably can't be made exclusive)

I want the bus to be clearly superior to other ways of getting around. Given dwell times at stops, this means it needs to move *faster* than regular traffic when moving.

I'd also be looking to concentrate service on fewer, better corridors, maybe just one (and let Seaport Blvd be an "under bus" only)
 
HelloBostonHi said:
there are whispers of a Summer St busway complete with brt amenities
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Given how wide open Summer is, I'm not sure a busway/brt would be much of an improvement timewise compared to the 7 bus.
 
Why Summer? All the action is on Seaport.


As for that ppt... 62% of all trips are in a car? What an enormous and foreseeable planning failure.
 
jass said:
Why Summer? All the action is on Seaport.


As for that ppt... 62% of all trips are in a car? What an enormous and foreseeable planning failure.
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When a crippled BRT is your only public transportation option, what would you expect? Even cycling in hindered by the constant construction bumping any riders out into traffic for blocks at a time.
 
George_Apley said:
When a crippled BRT is your only public transportation option, what would you expect? Even cycling in hindered by the constant construction bumping any riders out into traffic for blocks at a time.
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Well, more people would use the crippled bus options if they hadnt build giant garages for every single building.

And the bike connections are the biggest missed opportunities, especially bike share. The stations are all spread out and tiny. Theres a grand total of 45 bike racks in the entire northern half of the seaport. 100% useless for commuting.

Some NYC stations have over 100 docks, for a single station!

never mind the massive failure that was removing the best bike/ped connection - Northern Avenue bridge.
 
Whatever your feelings on commercial parking are, it's not responsible for the drive modeshare. Seaport office commute modeshares are ~20% drive alone, which is pretty great. It's off-peak trips dominated by rideshare that are the major problem, which IMO is good reason to look at improving SL connections via a GL conversion
 
jass said:
Well, more people would use the crippled bus options if they hadnt build giant garages for every single building.
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So, we WANT more people to use the crippled bus option? The point is that the bus is crippled because the state failed from the first instant. Any public transit in an underground tunnel should be RAIL.

never mind the massive failure that was removing the best bike/ped connection - Northern Avenue bridge.
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If it's structurally unsound it shouldn't be open. Still, there's not a good excuse for all the dilly-dallying they're doing to decide how best to replace the span.
 
FitchburgLine said:
Whatever your feelings on commercial parking are, it's not responsible for the drive modeshare. Seaport office commute modeshares are ~20% drive alone, which is pretty great. It's off-peak trips dominated by rideshare that are the major problem, which IMO is good reason to look at improving SL connections via a GL conversion
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Where are all those off-peak people parking?

In those massive garages that offer low off-peak rates because all the works went home.

George_Apley said:
So, we WANT more people to use the crippled bus option? The point is that the bus is crippled because the state failed from the first instant. Any public transit in an underground tunnel should be RAIL.
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The surface routes are crippled due to the congestion caused by SOVs

George_Apley said:
If it's structurally unsound it shouldn't be open. Still, there's not a good excuse for all the dilly-dallying they're doing to decide how best to replace the span.
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Able to drop a few billion into building a new city, but can't pony up the cash for an important bike/ped link. Thats a massive failure.
 
No. Rideshare is the outright majority of off-peak trips and isn’t affected by parking, and time of day data doesn’t show higher SOV utilization in the evening vs midday, when the commercial parking is still utilized.
 
^ This. Most city-dwellers who go into the Seaport take rideshares because it's the most practical and cheapest option. Public transit is bad. Parking is expensive (and requires a car...), bicycle infrastructure is poor. Out of towners drive and park, like they do for every part of the city. It's frankly mind-boggling that the state/city allowed this to happen.
 
jass said:
Why Summer? All the action is on Seaport.
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Development is moving towards Summer as Seaport finishes up developing its vacant lots. Seaport has the SL, love it or hate it. As Summer starts to boom it needs transit.
 
George_Apley said:
^ This. Most city-dwellers who go into the Seaport take rideshares because it's the most practical and cheapest option. Public transit is bad. Parking is expensive (and requires a car...), bicycle infrastructure is poor. Out of towners drive and park, like they do for every part of the city. It's frankly mind-boggling that the state/city allowed this to happen.
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George,

I don't know whether you are speaking from personal experience or in "Theory"

My experience has been that the Silver Line is more than adequate to get anywhere between Fort Point and D St. for Northern Ave, Seaport Blvd, Congress St. and even Summer St up to the BCEC

I just was at AIWorld held for the last time in Commonwealth Hall in the Seaport World Trade Center [next September it will be at the Hynes]

I took the Silver Line in the AM from South Station [minimal waiting time] got off at World Trade Center -- walked along the Viaduct and Voila I was there
On the way back approx 4 PM I walked down Congress then over to Seaport & Fan Pier -- then back past Vertex and onto the Silver Line at CourtHouse Station on to South Station
Only complaint was how unnecessarily big the CourtHouse Station Lobby was -- with so little in it
 
I'm speaking from anecdotal evidence from people who are regularly in the Seaport. I'm glad you had a good experience with the Silver Line. How full was the bus?

Structurally, the problems with the SL are: that the buses don't hold as many people as a trolley; they have to travel slowly in the tunnel compared to a trolley; there's poor connectivity with the broader system because the different branches of the SL don't connect. If the buses aren't crowded, then I have to wonder if people aren't even bothering with it because TNC's are readily available and more convenient from more points in the city.
 
George_Apley said:
I'm speaking from anecdotal evidence from people who are regularly in the Seaport. I'm glad you had a good experience with the Silver Line. How full was the bus?

Structurally, the problems with the SL are: that the buses don't hold as many people as a trolley; they have to travel slowly in the tunnel compared to a trolley; there's poor connectivity with the broader system because the different branches of the SL don't connect. If the buses aren't crowded, then I have to wonder if people aren't even bothering with it because TNC's are readily available and more convenient from more points in the city.
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George my experience on Thursday -- a normal weekday:

  1. Morning -- well after rush hour -- about 11:45 AM departure from South Station ---it was an SL2 : drydock -- first bus I saw when I came up the stairs from Red Line
    1. about 15 people boarded the front of the bus where I did​
    2. most did not deboard at Courthouse​
    3. I got off at World Trade Center near the front of the queue -- guessing most stayed on​
  2. Afternoon about 4:15 PM departure from Court House Station
    1. bus was boarding when I ran down from Lobby Level -- boarded through the front door -- didn't note its origin
    2. bus was fairly crowded -- I stood -- not sure if there were any seats further back -- no seats were near to me
    3. deboarded at South Station -- ran down the stairs just to catch Red Line arriving -- it was quite full
As I mentioned in my earlier post -- my only disappointment with the Silver Line [???] was the huge and vacant lobby at CourtHouse Station -- not even a DD or a sculpture to break up the emptiness
 
I commute on the SL semi-regularly (if it's nice out I walk from South Station or ride my bike), and in the morning it can be pretty brutal getting on at South Station. Going home (via Courthouse) can be bad too, very often the buses are full.
Courthouse's huge mezzanine is completely unnecessary, particularly since there's no entrance at the other end. I have heard (might have been here) that when they build out Parcel D (the vacant lot on Seaport Boulevard where the beer garden was this summer), it will include an entrance to Courthouse as well as an underground connection into the building, which will then connect underground to the Fan Pier complex.
 
Why cant they get some green line / trolley service down either Seaport or Congress... Jesus Christ connect it to the South End. Or plop it down on top of i-90 to the Back Bay station off to the side a little bit. Start it by The Edison plant, throw some lining down Congress once a few of the P projects .. cross the Ft Pt channel...
 
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