Silver Line - Phase III / BRT in Boston

But the point is a one-seat ride, not an awkward transfer that involves the long headways of commuter rail trains.
 
My trackless trolley suggestion would provide a one-seat ride and would stop at, or within one block of, at least 6 big hotels. But I wonder if it can really access the South Station silver line loop. Anyone know?
 
There's currently no Silver Line portal near South Station, just an underground loop. They'd have to add a portal.
 
Ron Newman said:
There's currently no Silver Line portal near South Station, just an underground loop. They'd have to add a portal.
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Understood. My question is whether a portal can be added without having to demolish buildings.
 
Fred R said:
Understood. My question is whether a portal can be added without having to demolish buildings.
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The portal is already there. When they build the silver line station they built a temporary wall so that they could easily extend the tunnel.
 
There is no portal. However, my understanding is that there was some additional tunnel excavation in the direction of Essex St. that extends beyond the loop. Perhaps PaulC is referring to that. Theoretically, it could form the beginning of a portal, but obviously some additional work is required. I have to think that this work would be substantial, otherwise it would have been done for the recent project connecting the Dudley Silver Line to South Station.
 
At a meeting I attended an engineer for the T said that a wall was built to allow easy removal for the exension. As for as I'm concerned every proposal for phase 3 was a shame, the T never intended to build it. Same with the urban ring.
 
Convert the current Silver Line tunnel to light rail only, and reroute the Silver Line busses from South Station to Logan into the car pool tunnels under Fort Point Channel.

A light rail line in the Silver Line tunnel could serve the South Boston waterfront area from South Station, plus connect to a RKG surface light rail line. It would be fairly easy to run an RKG light rail line on the old Summer Street truss bridge, and build a portal a few blocks east of Fort Point channel to carry the LRV line into the Silver Line tunnel. This would create an LRV line from South Station, to the South Boston waterfront and then along the RKG to the North End and possibly North Station.



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I've never understood the love affair with light rail. The Silver Line from SS to the airport and BCEC is every bit as comfortable as the Green Line. The Silver Line loses steam on Washington St because it doesn't have a truly dedicated bus lane. But you could build a BRT lane for something like 1/3rd of the capital outlay that it would take for LR (I recall that number from a HKS case study on the Silverline).
 
There are only so many cars a bus unit can carry behind it, so on one level it's a capacity issue. The Green Line (with its ridiculous two car combos) isn't the best poster child for the possibilities of LRT.

There are also arguments about the perceptions LRT generates - that it represents a more serious and long term investment due to the relative permanence of rail infrastructure, and thus attracts more investors / residents whose businesses won't be affected by reroutings.
 
czsz said:
There are only so many cars a bus unit can carry behind it, so on one level it's a capacity issue. The Green Line (with its ridiculous two car combos) isn't the best poster child for the possibilities of LRT.

There are also arguments about the perceptions LRT generates - that it represents a more serious and long term investment due to the relative permanence of rail infrastructure, and thus attracts more investors / residents whose businesses won't be affected by reroutings.
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Fair point on the capacity issue, but I don't buy the perception argument. If you put in truly dedicated lines with curbing, plantings etc. I think people will take it as permanent pretty quickly. I've also heard of attempts to change the "look" of the bus (i.e., articulated buses with a sleeker "trolley" feel) to counter the perception of a "normal" (and potentially fleeting) bus line.
 
The Silver Line from SS to the airport and BCEC is every bit as comfortable as the Green Line.
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I rode from SS to Black Falcon Sunday and the ride in the tunnel was unbearable. The concrete paving feels and looks like a washboard. You can't compare the speed or comfort of the bus to an underground trolley. Even with perfect construction the clearances of the tunnel don't allow for fast buses.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
That's why I think the relevant comparison is the Green Line.
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A ride on the Green Line is much, much smoother than the crumbling Silver Line tunnel. Opened very late 2004 (essentially 2005), started turning to gravel by 2009, still un-repaired in 2010. No one at the MBTA will acknowledge it.

Meanwhile the GL is running on rails that were laid down decades ago.
 
For better or worse -- really worse -- we're stuck with the trackless trolleys in the Silver Line tunnel, the overbuilt stations and the conversion to diesel at SL Way. I understand that there's some federal regulation that doesn't allow light rail or TTs in the Ted. On the other hand, there's no excuse for the lack of maintence in the SL tunnel; but that's to be expected from the half-ass ways the MBTA does things. One immediate and cost-free improvement would be to permit the Airport busses to over-ride traffic lights at D Street. Also eliminate the unnecessary stop inbound at the Seaport Hotel.
 
I feel the best idea is to have "BRT" act only to feed into/connect for one stop. The picture of that station in Seattle was great, but I don't know if they share the whole tunnel or just that stop. It would be best if the Silver Line was a collection of electric bus routes that used dedicated surface routes and then shared South Station with the light rail for a free transfer to consolidate in one space but not being redundant by sharing a whole tunnel. If that makes sense...

Basically: Imagine the Red Line is light rail, the Harvard station would be all one level where the trackless trolleys come off the streets right onto the rails in the tunnels and then go back up to continue on their own route.
 
Arborway said:
A ride on the Green Line is much, much smoother than the crumbling Silver Line tunnel. Opened very late 2004 (essentially 2005), started turning to gravel by 2009, still un-repaired in 2010. No one at the MBTA will acknowledge it.

Meanwhile the GL is running on rails that were laid down decades ago.
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I admittedly haven't ridden the SL in two couple years. I'm surprised (disappointed) to hear that the tunnel is in a sorry state.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
I admittedly haven't ridden the SL in two couple years. I'm surprised (disappointed) to hear that the tunnel is in a sorry state.
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It was disappointingly rough when I first rode it in late '07, and its only gone downhill from there. Which is funny, given that every time someone from the T talks about SL2 they make sure to mention how "comfortable" the ride is. It's actually a pretty embarrassing first impression to give visitors on their way into Boston from the airport.

The quality of the ride back then suggested the concrete wasn't poured properly. I'm more inclined to believe that than ever given that this is what the T has been ignoring for a year now. The crazy deformations in the pavement were likely there from Day 1

I'd be surprised to find out the proper concrete was used.
 
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