Silver Line to Chelsea

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

I actually haven't watched it at South Station but it might be the same there.

It is for the surface-stopping SL4 bus at least.

The SL1 and SL2 buses are all inside South Station Under fare control and those drivers will actually sometimes yell at pax to USE ALL OF THE AVAILABLE DOORS.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

The other incredibly stupid thing that NYC SBS does is stop the bus during a fare inspection. Basically they pull a vehicle to the curb, check everyone's receipt, and then let the bus go... bye bye speed advantage.

This is only done at random station stops and doesn't take that long. The speed advantage is still there.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Not that I've been able to find. I hear ya. The bridge takes a half hour at least. As an example, MassDOT tweets whenever the Fore River Bridge in Quincy is going to open and I wish something like that could be done for Chelsea St and Meridian St. It completely ruins my commute in the morning. I sincerely hope that the MBTA coordinates with the bridge operators to prevent the bridge from opening while the SL is close by to keep it on schedule.
The draw bridges and traffic jams on the Tobin and two things that really screw with the reliability on buses going in and out of Chelsea.

File this under things that would never happen, but if they dug a tunnel under Chelsea Creek connecting the bypass road in East Boston and the silver line route in Chelsea, you would have something resembling rapid transit that wasn't at the mercy of car traffic and draw bridges that move a glacial speeds serving Chelsea.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

So, the interesting thing is that they are mostly defying F-line (in a good way) and have addressed his three main problems by:
1) Toughing it out behind the warehouse at Eastern@Cottage
2) moving the CR station
3) going with a 1-lane-with-traffic-signal

See the new March 2014 SEIR here


On this ROW this driveway on Cottage is a busway no-go. No shoulder space, and the building's loading docks are at the far corner of the building leaving trucks backing out blind onto the ROW all day long. This block before Eastern Ave. and the bridge is impossible without land-taking and leveling 1 of these 2 neighboring warehouses. Or having a one-way road between blocks where buses at Cottage wait at a red light for buses at Eastern to pass, and vice versa. Clusterfuck. The Family Dollar store abutting the Broadway bridge would have to get leveled to widen that overpass. And either a building abutting the south side of the Washington St. overpass has to go or the Heard St./Washington intersection has to get cut in order to shiv a busway next to Chelsea CR station. No way to do this without blowing up buildings or doing some sections of signals + single-file buses at the property pinch points under the overpasses a la the design compromises CTfastrak is making. For the price tag the T is quoting here and the scant travel time difference between alternatives, evidence strongly points to going very constrained and very slow through here.
 
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Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Where the hell is F-Line anyway? I haven't seen him on rr.net lately either
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

So, the interesting thing is that they are mostly defying F-line (in a good way) and have addressed his three main problems by:
1) Toughing it out behind the warehouse at Eastern@Cottage
2) moving the CR station
3) going with a 1-lane-with-traffic-signal

See the new March 2014 SEIR here

Just a quick note if someone doesn't have time to check out the full details in the SEIR, the 1-lane-with-traffic-signal will just be at the Broadway bridge, Washington St bridge will be two way.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Just fond some images of 2 of the proposed stations

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/silverlinegateway/ProjectStatus.aspx

Map
SLG%201_study%20area.jpg


Eastern Ave
SLG%203_BRT%20Eastern%20Ave.jpg


Box District
SLG%204_BRT%20Box%20District.jpg
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Why is moving the commuter rail station away from the residential area and putting in the middle of the wasteland a good thing? The logical place for it is between Washington and Broadway with direct access to both streets. I guess the T really wants nobody to use the stop at all so they can have a case to eliminate it.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Why is moving the commuter rail station away from the residential area and putting in the middle of the wasteland a good thing? The logical place for it is between Washington and Broadway with direct access to both streets. I guess the T really wants nobody to use the stop at all so they can have a case to eliminate it.

Did you write to them and ask? dot.feedback.highway@state.ma.us
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Is SL Chelsea going to run electric past Airport? These renders suggest that they won't.

I guess there's no good answer here for me. If the answer is yes they will run electric, I'd ask who wants to wait while the bus operator needs to manually mode-switch yet again. If the answer is no, I'll ask what the goddamn point was of having purchased dual-use frankenbuses (and yes, I realize that it's what allows the SL to operate in the Piers Transitway... at 8 mph, slower than they would on dedicated Summer Street lanes).

The SL wherever it runs is an embarrassing failure. The more we expand it, the more the system ends up entrenched as-is. There needs to be a real discussion about light rail conversion. In three years or less the SL will be completely inadequate for the Seaport, and it's already a major bit of chutzpah to send it to Dudley.

Chelsea should be getting a Green Line branch from Sullivan, not this crap.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

The SL wherever it runs is an embarrassing failure. ...

Chelsea should be getting a Green Line branch from Sullivan, not this crap.

Agreed. And lets not forget that the Ted itself is already jammed up 7 hours a day. The inbound backup starts as early as 7am - and its not from the lane drop, its a backup all the way from exit 25 (South Boston / I 93).

The SL is a fiasco.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Is there a start/finish date for this project? The more successful this is the greater the chance of a new tunnel for the silver line. Too bad they cut corners and dropped the 3rd tube of the Ted Williams tunnel.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Is SL Chelsea going to run electric past Airport? These renders suggest that they won't.

I guess there's no good answer here for me. If the answer is yes they will run electric, I'd ask who wants to wait while the bus operator needs to manually mode-switch yet again. If the answer is no, I'll ask what the goddamn point was of having purchased dual-use frankenbuses (and yes, I realize that it's what allows the SL to operate in the Piers Transitway... at 8 mph, slower than they would on dedicated Summer Street lanes).

The SL wherever it runs is an embarrassing failure. The more we expand it, the more the system ends up entrenched as-is. There needs to be a real discussion about light rail conversion. In three years or less the SL will be completely inadequate for the Seaport, and it's already a major bit of chutzpah to send it to Dudley.

Chelsea should be getting a Green Line branch from Sullivan, not this crap.

The focus should be on a [relatively] cheap heavy rail line -- like, exact Red Line dimensions -- from Brickbottom to Sullivan/Assembly to along the rail line to Chelsea, along the former B&A to Airport. Have MassPort pick up the tab for Airport to terminal(s) which is likely the most expensive part on a per-foot basis. It is the inevitable, really. And it sure as hell is justified.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Is there a start/finish date for this project? The more successful this is the greater the chance of a new tunnel for the silver line. Too bad they cut corners and dropped the 3rd tube of the Ted Williams tunnel.

It doesn't need a new tunnel. Just a resurfacing, maybe, but it *definitely* needs guideways. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

I meant a new tunnel under the harbor.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

If the answer is no, I'll ask what the goddamn point was of having purchased dual-use frankenbuses (and yes, I realize that it's what allows the SL to operate in the Piers Transitway... at 8 mph, slower than they would on dedicated Summer Street lanes)..

When it's time to replace the dual mode buses, the T should order Seattle-style hybrids. They have a special "hush mode" where they can run solely on battery power at 15 mph. There would be no need for that lengthy process of raising the trolley poles. The driver would only need to press a button to switch to battery power.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

When it's time to replace the dual mode buses, the T should order Seattle-style hybrids. They have a special "hush mode" where they can run solely on battery power at 15 mph. There would be no need for that lengthy process of raising the trolley poles. The driver would only need to press a button to switch to battery power.

The hybrid buses the MBTA uses on Route 28 (New Flyer articulated buses, numbered in the 1200-1224 series) are essentially the same type as Seattle's hybrid fleet. My understanding is the MBTA experimented with the hush mode on one bus for non-revenue testing, and found that the batteries would drain very quickly with a fully loaded bus, with A/C on, climbing the grades in the Silver Line tunnel. The Seattle tunnel has portals on each end, so the buses only operate in hush mode for a small portion of each trip in each direction, giving enough time for the batteries to be recharged between each trip. Buses on the Silver Line Waterfront have to operate in electric mode from the portal to South Station and back.

The dual-mode buses are about to undergo a mid-life overhaul that will be completed by 2016, the contract was approved back at the June MBTA Board meeting. That will buy some time. By the time the overhauled dual-modes are ready to be retired, I think there is hope that the hybrid and battery technology will advance to the point that they will be a practical replacement for the dual-mode fleet in the 2019-2024 time period.

Proterra, which makes 100% battery buses that can be quickly recharged at the route layovers, has just introduced a 40-foot version of their bus. The big three major U.S. transit bus builders (New Flyer, NovaBus, and Gillig) are all working on their own electric battery bus versions of their standard models as well. Advancements in the technology continue.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Winston, I don't recall you weighing in on this question before: to what extent was the piers transitway spec'd with light rail conversion in mind? This has been debated here before but I've never seen it resolved conclusively.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Winston, I don't recall you weighing in on this question before: to what extent was the piers transitway spec'd with light rail conversion in mind? This has been debated here before but I've never seen it resolved conclusively.

The tunnels and stations were designed so that they would not preclude a future conversion to light rail, however there would be a considerable cost to install the rail. There would also be the issue of locating a maintenance facility for light rail cars for an isolated line.
 

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