Springfield Developments

[DominusNovus]

Edit: Like this. I also cut off the I-390 spur (current 291) outside of the city center to discourage traffic from going through Springfield and instead using the other side of the river.

Interesting idea. Could you color code that differently, so the different routes are more obvious?

 

[DominusNovus]

Best case scenario in the near term:

1) Downgrade to 2 lanes and put the whole thing in a trench
2) Simplify the off-ramps and weaving
3) Build boulevard surface roads along the trench and build big right up to it.

And Eventually:

4) Cap the cut

Cincinnati more or less did all of that, and it's jump started (or at least been a big component of) a downtown boom.

Problem with trenching the highway on the east bank of the river is that it crosses the Mill River, which the people most eager for redevelopment want to restore to its original condition.

 

[DominusNovus]

There is no friggin way 91 would be boulevarded, unless you want to spend another 10 minutes passing through the city, and then you would have a delightful stretch of gridlock of heavy trucks cutting off the waterfront.

Almost certainly the viaduct will be repaired, burying the thing would be ideal but would require completely rebuilding the 291 interchange (and probably the south end bridge interchange), regrading a mile of the highway in each direction and dealing with the with cross streets and railroad tracks.

The topography is not conducive to rerouting the highway on the west side of the river, there is room along the flood control dike, but you would end up with two of the infamous "Chicopee Curve", and the associated overturned trucks.

The workable solution is to rebuild the viaduct in a much more permeable fashion and provide a circulator system connecting the riverfront with the downtown. This does not take into account the 6 lanes of high speed traffic on east and west columbus ave on each side of 91 which is a total clusterfuck. It is unlikely the riverfront will be a vibrant location in the forseeable future.

Making another 'Chicopee Curve' would be less than ideal. Of course, if route 5 is totally taken over, than the first one is eliminated anyway (unless that stretch of highway is kept and repurposed into part of I-291).

I came up with another concept, to keep things a bit more gradual:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...ll=42.101916,-72.583237&spn=0.061517,0.140762
My 'alt 3' route.
Have I-91 start to head up through Springfield, cross the river south of the Hall of Fame (looks like there's a vacant lot there with plenty of space to build a curve, and you could take over some of the dealerships there anyway), and then take some land from the Sewer Plant as the route gently curves right up into route 5.

The bustling metropoli of Warren and Dalton. The replacement of the CSX bridge and associated regrading in downtown Westfield has pretty much ruined any chance of having a convenient staton there. I cannot envision any higher level of service west of Springfield other than an additional LSL.

Man, I had so much to slog through there, I forgot about that one. Twice hourly trains connecting the berkshires and pioneer valley. The mind boggles at the concept.

 

[davem]

Interesting idea. Could you color code that differently, so the different routes are more obvious?

Ask and ye shall receive.

I-391 would remain intact as is (not highlighted)
New I-91 is Blue (former RT-5)
New I-291 is Green (former I-91 mainline)
New I-390 is Orange (truncated former I-291)
RT-5 is Yellow, and functions as a frontage road through the commercial area in West Springfield.
Rt-20 is also Yellow, and takes the place of I-291 from Liberty St west as a four lane boulevard.
I also added/highlighted some connecting streets in the former I-291 ROW in violet.

I think the downgrading through downtown Springfield would help as a 4 vs a 6-8 lane mainline is far easier to bury or trench in small phases, and being more narrow is also far more humanizing to have to walk over/under.
The new I-91 would have only three exits vs the current 13, making it a superior through-route. My rerouting also only requires eminent domain at the ends, and only one of those is a residential area. I imagine the best time to do this would be as the current viaduct begins to reach its end of life. Upgrade Rt 5 first, then begin tearing down the old 91.

Edit: Regarding 6 Flags and the train. I wonder if six flags would be willing to buy a ferry to get people across the river. If you built a station and ferry slip somewhere here both the MBTA and ConnDOT could run specials to it, similar to the ski trains. The biggest issue then would be that the ticket area is on the other side of the park. Perhaps since it is six flags boat they could have ticket booths right on the ferry, and process guests en route.

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

The bustling metropoli of Warren and Dalton. The replacement of the CSX bridge and associated regrading in downtown Westfield has pretty much ruined any chance of having a convenient staton there. I cannot envision any higher level of service west of Springfield other than an additional LSL.

I don't know, Boston - Albany is a fairly strong city pair, and I imagine Albany - Springfield is non-trivial as well.

It's a garbage commute corridor west of Worcester (never mind Springfield), but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Berkshires service pop up some time in the future at five to eight round-trips daily, in the style of the Downeaster.

Regarding 6 Flags and the train. I wonder if six flags would be willing to buy a ferry to get people across the river. If you built a station and ferry slip somewhere here both the MBTA and ConnDOT could run specials to it, similar to the ski trains. The biggest issue then would be that the ticket area is on the other side of the park. Perhaps since it is six flags boat they could have ticket booths right on the ferry, and process guests en route.

I can't tell if there's no development immediately southeast of the Lincoln College of New England building because that's protected land, but assuming it isn't, there's no reason to try and hash out an extremely gimmicky ferry service that hinges an awful lot on Six Flags actually wanting it (and also screws Lincoln College, which appears to be a commuter school) when you can just as easily push the station right up to the state line, build a drawbridge for vehicles and traffic to cross the river so you can access State Line Station from either side of the River, and run shuttles back and forth all day long.

Of course, there's an even more straightforward solution here: Springfield Union Station is a 15 minute drive (or future shuttle bus) ride from Six Flags at zero cost and doable today. This doesn't change if Springfield Union Station moves a block southwest - and going back to the original discussion of what to do about I-91, any proposal ought to at least take note of the fact that Springfield's station needs to move.

 

[acroterion]

I don't know, Boston - Albany is a fairly strong city pair, and I imagine Albany - Springfield is non-trivial as well.

It's a garbage commute corridor west of Worcester (never mind Springfield), but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Berkshires service pop up some time in the future at five to eight round-trips daily, in the style of the Downeaster.

The Springfield metro area is far more economcally integrated towards the north and south, not a whole lot of relation with Albany, and Pittsfield even is quite off onto itself. You will see that kind of schedule along the inland route, and to a small degree up the Pioneer Valley, but 35 miles of curving steep grades though zip population density with heaviest freight traffic in New England doesn't look too promising for that level of service. You might get away with a some kind of limited stop at Chester at the most, east of Pittsfield

 

[Nexis4jersey]

My Knowledge Corridor Railway Proposals...

Springfield Divison

Western line -- 30 minutes during peak hour , Hourly off peak service
Pittsfield
Dalton
Westfield
West Springfield
Springfield Union
Indian Orchard
Palmer
Warren
East Brookfield-Spencer
Webster Sq
Worcester Union


QUOTE]

The bustling metropoli of Warren and Dalton. The replacement of the CSX bridge and associated regrading in downtown Westfield has pretty much ruined any chance of having a convenient staton there. I cannot envision any higher level of service west of Springfield other than an additional LSL.

Small towns get stations along with the large ones and cities. I looked at the CSX Bridge in Westfield it does not hamper a future station. 6-9 roundtrips a day between Springfield and Pittsfield/Albany is feasible...

 

[DominusNovus]

Small towns get stations along with the large ones and cities. I looked at the CSX Bridge in Westfield it does not hamper a future station. 6-9 roundtrips a day between Springfield and Pittsfield/Albany is feasible...

As an added bonus, the seating arrangement will be incredibly spacious.

PS, how many of these towns have you even been to?

 

[Nexis4jersey]

As an added bonus, the seating arrangement will be incredibly spacious.

PS, how many of these towns have you even been to?

Iin Western Mass , Springfield , and Pittsfield....in 2008. 2005 was my big 3 week Canadian-New England Vacation

These are cities that ive vacationed in or explored....of course there's more that I have passed through.

Canada

Ontario
Niagara Falls - 2004
Hamilton - 2008
Toronto - 2008
Ottawa - 2008
Kingston - 2008

Quebec
Montreal - 2005
Toris Rivers - 2005
Quebec City - 2005

New Brunswick
St. John - 2005

New England

Maine
Bangor - 2005
Augusta - 2005
Brunswick - 2005
Portland - 2005

New Hampshire
Rochester - 2005
Portsmouth - 2005

Massachusetts
Boston - 2005,2008 , 2009,2011
Cambridge - 2011
Milford - 2011
Worcester - 2011
Springfield - 2008
Pittsfield - 2008
New Bedford - 2005
Fall River - 2005

Rhode Island
Providence - 2005 , 2009
Kingston - 2005 , 2009

Connecticut
Stamford - several dozen times since 2003
Norwalk - 2009 , 2012 , 2013
New Haven - 2008 , 2011
Hartford - 2008 , 2011
Danbury - 2002 , 2004 , 2005
Newtown - 2002 , 2004 , 2005
Mystic - 2002
New London - 2005
Bridgeport - 2009

My Upcoming Urban Exploring trips and Vacations if your wondering

Mid February - March
New Haven : City Point , Long wharf , The Hill , Transportation
Norwalk : East Norwalk , Wall Street , Rowayton? , Harborview , Central Norwalk


April - June
Newark : Cherry Blossom Festival , Upper Roseville , University Heights Overview | Bloomfield : Silver Lake , Watessing , Five Corners
New Haven : Downtown , East Rock , Mill River , Fair Haven Heights , Wooster SQ - Cherry Blossom Festival
Philadelphia : South Philly , Fairmont Park , Manayunk , University City , Various Trolley Routes < National Train Day
Connecticut : Milford , Woodmont , West Haven , Grand Opening of West Haven Station
Washington DC | Maryland : Baltimore | Virgina : Alexandria , Fredricksburg

July - September
The Bronx : Pelham Bay Park , Orchard Beach , City Island | Pelham : Downtown & Pelham Manor | New Rochelle : Downtown , Woodside , Glen Island Park
Trolley Suburbs of Philly : Clifton Heights , Aldan , Sharon Hill , Drexel Hill
Maine | Old Orchard Beach , Saco , Portland , Brunswick - Summer Family Vacation
Newark : Ironbound Overview

October-December
Lower Hudson valley : Beacon | Yonkers : Glenwood ,Downtown , Ludlow
Newark : Newark from a Plane , Newark from the Railroads , Newark from Highways & Portside view < Unique Newark views
Jersey City : Downtown Overview , Little India / Journal Sq Overview , Jersey City Heights Overview , Liberty State Park Overview

2014
Cleveland-Chicago - Amtrak Vacation?
Eastern Provinces of Canada?

2015
Czech Republic , Germany , Poland , Britian , Finland?

2016
Minneapolis-Portland-Seattle-Vancouver - Amtrak Vacation?

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

Small towns get stations along with the large ones and cities. I looked at the CSX Bridge in Westfield it does not hamper a future station. 6-9 roundtrips a day between Springfield and Pittsfield/Albany is feasible...

Small towns get stations that will go for the most part totally unused, and serve only as a huge schedule drag on a corridor that really can't afford any more drags than absolutely necessary.

Yes, 8 roundtrips daily between Springfield and Albany is feasible, but only if those trains stop absolutely nowhere else between them except for Pittsfield.

If residents of Dalton, or Warren, or Palmer really want to ride a train, it's spacious enough out in the wilds that they can drive to the nearest place large enough to justify building a station. Stopping in the middle of nowhere doesn't help anybody.

 

[DominusNovus]

Iin Western Mass , Springfield , and Pittsfield....in 2008. 2005 was my big 3 week Canadian-New England Vacation

Wow, thats even less than I was expecting. You went to the two cities in Western MA that are both large enough themselves and important enough focal points for their surrounding region to merit passenger service of some form by rail. By an amazing coincidence, those are the two cities that are already served.

I'm looking at your very long list and I'm struck by how pretty much every place you've been is an urban location in some fashion (or, at minimum, a major hub for its surrounding area). I really do think some perspective would help you out greatly. Go explore the surrounding towns and suburbs of your list, and the hill towns further out. These are places that are not ideally suited for your rail plans, and perhaps seeing them firsthand will better enable you to see that.

 

[Nexis4jersey]

Wow, thats even less than I was expecting. You went to the two cities in Western MA that are both large enough themselves and important enough focal points for their surrounding region to merit passenger service of some form by rail. By an amazing coincidence, those are the two cities that are already served.

I'm looking at your very long list and I'm struck by how pretty much every place you've been is an urban location in some fashion (or, at minimum, a major hub for its surrounding area). I really do think some perspective would help you out greatly. Go explore the surrounding towns and suburbs of your list, and the hill towns further out. These are places that are not ideally suited for your rail plans, and perhaps seeing them firsthand will better enable you to see that.

FYI , ive been to a decent amount of Suburb towns and coastal villages in NYC Metro....and off the beaten path. I enjoy off the beaten Path....and some of my upcoming trips are hidden gems like the Trolley Suburbs of Philly or the Coastal CT towns.

Look around... http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/collections/

Long Island,NY
Douglaston
Great Neck
Long Beach
Inwood
Atlantic Beach
East Atlantic Beach
Lido Beach
Kensington
Thomaston
Great Neck Estates
Little Neck

New Jersey

Pascack Valley line
Hillsdale
Westwood
Emerson
New Bridge Landing
Anderson Street - Hackensack


Northeast Corridor
Secaucus JCT upper Level
Newark Penn
Rahway
Metropark
Metuchen
New Brunswick
Trenton

North Jersey Coast line
South Amboy
Red Bank
Long Branch
Elberon
Deal
Allenhurst
Asbury Park
Ocean Grove
Bradley Beach



Morristown line
Newark Broad Street - Downtown Newark
Mountain Station - South Orange
South Orange
Summit
Madison
Covent Station - Madison
Morristown


River Line Light Rail
Trenton
Bordentown
Roebling
Burlington
Delanco
Riverside
Riverton
Palmyra
Walter Rand Transit - Camden
Cooper Street - Rutgers - Camden
Aquarium - Camden

Montclair - Boonton line
Bay Street - Montclair



Metro North

Hudson line
Cold Spring
Sleepy Hallow
Tarrytown
Dobbs Ferry
Hastings on Hudson
Yonkers
Riverdale / Fieldston
Spuyten Duyvil

Harlem line
Valhalla
North White Plains
White Plains
Hartsdale
Scarsdale
Crestwood
Tuckahoe
Bronxville
Botanical Gardens
Harlem - 125th Street
Grand Central Terminal

 

[DominusNovus]

Has anyone yet told how maddening the format of your lists is?

 

[GMACK24]

our neighbors to the west

@ Night of course.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmack24/13085576083/in/photostream