The Hub on Causeway (née TD Garden Towers) | 80 Causeway Street | West End

[DZH22]

Fucking Christ, they really have to go with fake terra-cotta colored panels? Again? In Boston? I really liked those industrial windows before, but I am so fucking sick of these fucking PANELS!

I'm with you on this one. It strikes me as a lazy attempt to make new buildings fit in with all the surrounding brick buildings. The value of those older buildings are the materials theirselves, not the color of them. If you're going to use a cheaper, more modern material then just try to use it in a way that looks good in its own way, using its own colors rather than trying to make it blend. Boston is a living city, not a UNESCO world heritage site.

You guys are so cute when you are upset. Why do you think these choices are made? How do you think these choices are made? In another post yesterday (the MIT nano thread I think) I explained that in a project like this the price of the building has everything to do with the price of the exterior skin (because it is an empty box full of air is essence) and if you save $1/sf of facade on a project of this scope you can take $1M out of the pro forma. Imagine the pressure on the developers project managers to get that $1/sf or $30/sf out of the facade costs. Think of the bonus you would get at the end of the year when the choice to go from a facade that looks like something at Hudson Yards (which is the gold standard of tower design) to something that is "good enough to get past BCDC". So ... you get sad, flat, cheap, but just good enough to be acceptable in projects like this.

cca

This might be a non-starter but what if, instead of trying to (cheaply) mimic the brick look, they had gone in another direction with, say, Celtic green panels? It would have been neat if some part of this architecturally paid homage to the 2 teams that call the Garden their home.

 

[JumboBuc]

You guys are so cute when you are upset. Why do you think these choices are made? How do you think these choices are made? In another post yesterday (the MIT nano thread I think) I explained that in a project like this the price of the building has everything to do with the price of the exterior skin (because it is an empty box full of air is essence) and if you save $1/sf of facade on a project of this scope you can take $1M out of the pro forma. Imagine the pressure on the developers project managers to get that $1/sf or $30/sf out of the facade costs. Think of the bonus you would get at the end of the year when the choice to go from a facade that looks like something at Hudson Yards (which is the gold standard of tower design) to something that is "good enough to get past BCDC". So ... you get sad, flat, cheap, but just good enough to be acceptable in projects like this.

cca

So if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that cheap siding is cheaper? And cheaper things cost less? Wow, what insight! I'm sure that everyone who is "so cute when [they] are upset" never thought of that! Thanks for explaining!

 

[fattony]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that cheap siding is cheaper? And cheaper things cost less? Wow, what insight! I'm sure that everyone who is "so cute when [they] are upset" never thought of that! Thanks for explaining!

I think he is trying to say: Consider what you would do if you were in the architect's shoes. If it were YOUR decision to make and YOUR paycheck at stake, how much would you care about every last aesthetic detail then? Somebody on the design team has to make adult decisions, you can't just have it all.

 

[odurandina]

Not sure if dark green or navy-ish Alucobond or green marble could work right there.

Is Boston channeling its inner Santa Fe, or will the rampant usage of varying shades of terracotta encircle our next nightmare?

 

[cca]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that cheap siding is cheaper? And cheaper things cost less? Wow, what insight! I'm sure that everyone who is "so cute when [they] are upset" never thought of that! Thanks for explaining!

Anytime. That is what we are here for.

I think he is trying to say: Consider what you would do if you were in the architect's shoes. If it were YOUR decision to make and YOUR paycheck at stake, how much would you care about every last aesthetic detail then? Somebody on the design team has to make adult decisions, you can't just have it all.

I am not speaking of the architect. In general the architects make recommendation based on the design criteria, including the proforma, and beyond that they follow orders. I am mostly saying that the choice to make things cheaper is a financial choice that is sometimes necessary and sometimes done because the bottom line looks better and better the more and more quality gets taken out of a project. While to me that is a tragedy, to someone else it means a big payday so ... F'it ... its good enough, at least I got paid.

cca

 

[cca]

Not sure if dark green or navy-ish Alucobond or green marble could work right there.

Is Boston channeling its inner Santa Fe, or will the rampant usage of varying shades of terracotta encircle our next nightmare?

Terracotta panels are a stand in for brick. Its a way of making a material connection to the brick past of Boston. Not saying it works, but when there is a discussion about contextual materials Terra Cotta panels are on the top of the list.

cca

 

[stick n move]

Again this is like a quarter of the way done so of course its going to look like shit. We neeeeed to stop doin this here. Every project we love the renders, then hate it when its not even half way done, then when its done we say ooh thats actually pretty nice. Damn near every project this happens and its predictable. Lets wait until its done or close then we can pass judgement, because I bet people are going to love this.

 

[cca]

Again this is like a quarter of the way done so of course its going to look like shit. We neeeeed to stop doin this here. Every project we love the renders, then hate it when its not even half way done, then when its done we say ooh thats actually pretty nice. Damn near every project this happens and its predictable. Lets wait until its done or close then we can pass judgement, because I bet people are going to love this.

But what would we talk about? Nothing. There is nothing else to do on the interwebs but be instantly offended about everything. (And use lots of hyperbolic language) (and emojis)

cca

 

[Beton Brut]

In general the architects make recommendation based on the design criteria, including the proforma, and beyond that they follow orders...While to me that is a tragedy, to someone else it means a big payday so ... F'it ... its good enough, at least I got paid.

And from where I sit, as a "thinker on the built environment," this is the problem of our age. There was a time when a lack of resources lead to innovation. Look no further than the early Florida houses of Paul Rudolph during his partnership with Ralph Twitchell -- innovative and flexible, impermanent yet timeless.

Today we build willfully impermanent buildings, where the only value is the bottom line. But we pay lip-service to the color and texture of brick. It's "let's make pretend" architecture, as authentic as the buildings on a Hollywood backlot. Cynical and sickening. Less like this, please...

 

[chrisbrat]

a very right-minded and well-conveyed summary/point. thanks for that post.

 

[stick n move]

Lol. Idk we could talk about how its a huge improvement to the area, its growing pretty fast now, the hotel is cool cuz its really short but since its on top of the podium its going to have skyscraper views, the residential had ugly renders so since buildings usually turn out a bit worse than renders this may be bad.... but maybe it will look better and in that case its a huge win.

We could still complain about how they had a perfectly good looking office tower, but got an itchy ass and just couldn't leave it alone and had to change it.... when what they should have done was kept changing the residential tower. Gahd dayom I hope this office tower comes out good. We really needed a spire on the skyline I was pretty excited. Even though it wasn't the greatest tower of all time it was still nice and a lit spire was just what we needed. This tower better deliver as the gateway to the city, we need it to.

 

[Arlington]

Sorry to repeat myself: when does the direct connection from Commuter Rail to Subway open?

 

[DZH22]

We really needed a spire on the skyline I was pretty excited. Even though it wasn't the greatest tower of all time it was still nice and a lit spire was just what we needed. This tower better deliver as the gateway to the city, we need it to.

That spire, outside of adding to the "official" height, otherwise was visually on par (if that) with the antenna on buildings such as 1 Beacon, 1 Financial, and the Pru. The setbacks on the tower (head-on view) mattered a lot more than the stupid pole on top. Boston could use more crowns, or a spire that makes sense like on top of ESB/Chrysler, 1 Liberty Place in Philadelphia, or the Key Tower in Cleveland. A stick tacked on to a flat roof looks more out of place than anything. (unless, of course, it's an antenna)

 

[DZH22]

Sorry to repeat myself: when does the direct connection from Commuter Rail to Subway open?

It seems kind of far to make a direct connection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.364...4!1sQGdE9h_E40nBDRKArCMcKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Ha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. I hope somebody in-the-know reads your post and gets back to you.

 

[stick n move]

I personally think its following the renders and that as a finished product its going to look good.

I dont think this looked slapped together I think this looked pretty good especially lit up. I think it would have also been better if they moved the tower to the end of the podium and continued the facade down the corner/side of the podium continuing it to street level so the tower continued from the ground to the spire vs being plopped on top of the podium so that way it would look much taller and less wide and be unbroken from the street to the top. They sort of did this on North Station tower a little.

Heres a massing model that doesnt show the correct models but shows a view we havent seen that looks cool:

And finally heres what were getting:




I dont think weve seen the new and unimproved "gateway view". Anyways here it is:

 

[JSic]

These towers will give The Garden more of a "big city" feel when they show it on tv during games.

 

[mass88]

These towers will give The Garden more of a "big city" feel when they show it on tv during games.

Which will be a good thing because it will help distract from the fact that The Garden is a very ugly building.

 

[Beton Brut]

The massing model looks better than any of the renderings.

 

[Czervik.Construction]

Shawmut Center 4 life, kid!!!

Which will be a good thing because it will help distract from the fact that The Garden is a very ugly building.

 

[odurandina]

Heres a massing model that doesnt show the correct models but shows a view we havent seen that looks cool:

The massing model looks better than any of the renderings.

That's the one from when it was originally approved for 659'.

And finally heres what were getting:

So sad......