The Ipswich | 2 Charlesgate West | Fenway

[xec]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

I feel like this actually has a fair likelihood of going forward. Fenway neighborhood groups have proven pretty receptive of development and height.
Also, they have already accepted this development in much more significant areas. I would argue the Burger King Lot, 1330 and that side of Boylston buildings have done a lot more to impact the primary area of Fenway residences. By contrast, this is pretty much on the edge.

Plus aside from the point, this may be the nicest addition.

The Red Sox will never allow it to happen unless they cut it down to three stories tall.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

The Red Sox will never allow it to happen unless they cut it down to three stories tall.

I mentioned this over in the Fenway Area Redevelopment thread where this project was originally being discussed, so I'll pull that quote over here:

^ My first reaction to that photo was a big "it'll never happen" eye roll, but after a closer look I think that a project there might have potential. The site is at a corner kind of sticking out from the neighborhood in way that makes it have not very many neighbors. It borders the Charlesgate to the east and southeast, the Pike to the north, and that new Emerson building to the west, so its only residential neighbors are a big apartment block to the southwest. Its shadows would fall mostly on the Pike. And the building that's there now is seriously ugly and architecturally insignificant.

One problem is that the site sits just to the right of the Ford sign in this angle from Fenway and only about 200 meters from the bleachers, so a building of enough height (the render looks to be about thirty stories) would surely mess up the sightlines out of the park and draw opposition from the Red Sox.

The original Fenway shot I linked was a bit old, and some additional signage has since been added to that area beyond right-center field. The New Balance sign may block the building somewhat, depending on the exact orientation, but I believe that the building would still stand fairly prominently from inside the park.

This could be interesting to see just how politically powerful the Red Sox are in shaping development around the park. If the overall neighborhood is for the tower but the team isn't, who will win? I wouldn't be surprised if the team makes Transnational an offer they can't refuse to nip this thing in the bud before it gains any momentum. That could also figure into Belkin's motivation for publicizing these renders.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Theres parks all over the country with all kinds of towers visible from the park. Comerica park in detroit comes to mind first. Not to mention the pru and hancock tower over right field with the pru almost as tall as the light tower. Why would this tower be such a big deal when the pru and hancock are already extremely prominent?

 

[dshoost88]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Petco Park in Whale's Vagina comes to mind:

I would argue that urbanism around the ballpark enhances the experience, not detract from it. I attended several meetings for the Van Ness and Viridian when they were seeking approval--as I recall, nobody from the Red Sox organization challenged those projects in the least. IIRC, they may have even praised the developers for enhancing the neighborhood around the Park.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

This thing has momentum. i say why not!

The fact that it's curved, is a possible sign there was a meeting of minds upstairs at City Hall.

but, of course there was. therefore;

To the Globe readers, i kindly offer the 'of course it's getting approved: You're getting your housing! duh.' battlecry.

 

[BuilditDenser]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Wouldn't the only game that this tower would cast a shadow for be patriots day?
The tower is to the east of Fenway. The sun sets in the west. The only time of day that a shadow would be anywhere near the park would be before noon. Another potential issue is the view. But the new scoreboard blocks a substantial part of the view from 2 Charlesgate. The only issue I can see is the wind and that shouldn't be a calamity given the rounded shape of the building.


This site should be super easy to convert into a 30ish story building. It is relatively isolated, next to a highway and train tracks, kinda near transit (fenway cr stop and green line), the developer owns the property, a reasonable neighborhood for development, the site is blighted, and it would drastically improve the pedestrian experience. These kind of projects matter a ton for Boston. Some form of this project should be built.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

^^ i love our Boston standards, 'kinda near' transit.

6 minute walk. https://www.google.com/search?rls=c...64.serp..14.10.1355...30i10j35i39.f2b-JuPTDZI

by NYC standards it's 'right at MTA station.' :thumbsup:

Breathes life into a dead stump....

Hides some of the Pike from the Fenway.

Add the crap about more working space for artists.

This one is a 10++.

Classic case for 'if not here, where?'

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Fenway is not like other parks.

Van Ness and the Viridian are on the "back side" of Fenway and, except for a few random little peeks through the stands and a few spots in the outfield, can't be seen from the field.

The Red Sox have made no secret of the fact that they don't want new buildings looming over the field. That's why they've bought up most of Landsdowne St and made land swaps that give up property "behind" the stadium in exchange for land where potential development could provide sightlines to the field. Note that the "handgun billboard" now only displays Red Sox ads; the team took it over as part of a swap that prevents the land across from the Monster from getting built up. The last thing the team wants is a Wrigley situation, where third parties rent out roof deck seating that looks down onto the action.

The Sox love that Fenway is in an urban neighborhood and that the Back Bay skyline hangs out in the distance, they just don't want that skyline getting too close. They're really no different from most people (not just NIMBYs) who love a city view and a happening neighborhood but don't want a new tower right next door, peaking down into their backyard.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

^^So, billionaire's Belkin and Henry have a meeting and work it out.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

^ Right, and the outcome of that meeting would be that Belkin walks away with a chunk of cash and the tower never happens.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Red Sox going to pay off the CSC and 4 Seasons as well? Maybe you'll all be proven right about 2CW, but I'm going to go with my gut for the moment. My gut says this is an idiotic argument, period.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Red Sox going to pay off the CSC and 4 Seasons as well? Maybe you'll all be proven right about 2CW, but I'm going to go with my gut for the moment. My gut says this is an idiotic argument, period.

Seriously? The 2 Charlesgate West site is 153 m from the Park's outside wall. The 1 Dalton site is 898 m away. Can you honestly not see the difference here???

I'm not saying that the Sox will prevent this from being built. I'm saying that the Sox will want to prevent this from being built, and may be successful. They clearly won't care about the CSC site, as that is by no reasonable measure even in their neighborhood.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

i don't see how this takes anything away from Fenway. Ostensibly, the neighborhood is seeing its density increase by 8~10%. Fenway park is the Holy Grail of a neighborhood that's just coming into it's own. For those who would argue against it, i'd ask, 'how does this negatively affect Fenway? Because you can see it from the infield and box seats?' If you want to discuss licensing, like Wrigley, bring the lawyers and lets roll.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

Seriously? The 2 Charlesgate West site is 153 m from the Park's outside wall. The 1 Dalton site is 898 m away. Can you honestly not see the difference here???

If they're not going to stop The Pierce, why would they stop this one?

Say what you want but the Pru has been the most "stand-out" building in the Fenway view for the last 50 years, and it's about to be eclipsed by a taller, slightly closer tower.

153m is still 500'. It's not THAT close. The building could topple over in the direction of Fenway and it would still miss by ~50m/160'. How close is The Pierce to Fenway?

 

[tmac9wr]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

I can't see the Red Sox having enough power to block this. 10-15 years ago it would have been possible to entertain the idea, but baseball is dying fast and its influence is going with it. I can't imagine the city rejecting approval for a project due to the "historic view" of a stadium's right field.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

I can't see the Red Sox having enough power to block this. 10-15 years ago it would have been possible to entertain the idea, but baseball is dying fast and its influence is going with it. I can't imagine the city rejecting approval for a project due to the "historic view" of a stadium's right field.

You mean the single most famous building in the city? That stadium?

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

If they're not going to stop The Pierce, why would they stop this one?

Say what you want but the Pru has been the most "stand-out" building in the Fenway view for the last 50 years, and it's about to be eclipsed by a taller, slightly closer tower.

153m is still 500'. It's not THAT close. The building could topple over in the direction of Fenway and it would still miss by ~50m/160'. How close is The Pierce to Fenway?

By my measure, Pierce is 328 m from the park's outer wall. But, as you eloquently put it, Pierce is not in "the Fenway view". It's on the wrong side of the park for sight lines to matter, so the Sox don't care about it.

 

[choo]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

The sox largest concern is a wrigley situation where people can set up and see in. That's why they bought up landsdowne and close down yaw key. They don't want that or ads on other buildings from Fenway (Citgo obvious exception from yesteryear). They want to be the only one making money off their fans/customers. As long as this building doesn't do that, I don't think the sox care

 

[whighlander]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

I can't see the Red Sox having enough power to block this. 10-15 years ago it would have been possible to entertain the idea, but baseball is dying fast and its influence is going with it. I can't imagine the city rejecting approval for a project due to the "historic view" of a stadium's right field.

Tmac -- Baseball might be "dying fast" -- but the Red Sox and Fenway are a phenomenally successful brand and financial operation

Remember that they spent M$ in 2004-2005 to redo the 406 club named after Ted Williams iconic 0.406 batting average in 1941 -- just because of some indications that it's 2 story glass curtain wall had a deleterious effect on the flight of certain kinds of hits in certain directions

The glass is now gone replaced by open seating and renamed once again the EMC Club -- perhaps to become the ....Club

Therefore -- Any building tall enough and close enough to possibly effect the air flow in the vicinity of the Green Monster is immediately suspect in their eyes

by google Maps the distance from home plate to the existing TransNational Building is
Total distance: 1,321.20 ft (402.70 m)
the good new for the project is the line is through the right field bullpens which makes it much less of a problem for home runs as Fenway's seats rise gradually in that direction -- so that "normal trajectory" home runs are very common

see for your self
https://goo.gl/maps/pBZQRfvhss92

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 2 Charlesgate West

No way this building will affect wind patterns in the park. All the Sox will care about are sight lines.