The St Regis Residences (former Whiskey Priest site) | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Shirley Leung is usually so intelligent. Not sure which PR team got to her, sounds like the CLF's flaks, but this column is just plain stupid.

I don't even know her point. The current restaurant is bad? So tearing it down is... bad? The new set-up with public waterfront access is... "the price of progress"?

Dumb. Very, very dumb.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Agreed, she's completely failing to link together the various points she's making. Logic, there is not.

Tossing in the mention that Cronin is an immigrant is gratuitously pointless and stupid, too. I don't give a rat's ass if he's an immigrant or not, and if he is, where from.

And then in the next paragraph she's tossing in a Whitey Bulger digression. Did she just run out of ideas?

Those were two paragraphs of column space that she could have devoted to trying to think through the logic she started with to see if she could somehow link it up with the logic she ended with.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

That is a terrible column. The current public access at the site it bad, so we shouldn't let him make it better? Huh?

The Tim Logan column from a couple days ago was reasonable and appropriate; this Leung column is not.

The true value of Shirley Leung is revealed: We can all come together over how terrible her columns are!

This reads like she's been lurking on the last 4 days of this thread without really grasping any of what we've been debating.

Incidentally, Shirley's column next week will be questioning whether Four Seasons will really build a tower at One Dalton, because she's been to the Back Bay a lot and has never seen a tower on that property before...
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

^^^^
There is no logic concerning Chap 91-
There is no current Harborwalk now with the existing structure

"The state’s Chapter 91 regulations list specific requirements for public access to the waterfront, but they can be modified"
Like I said Stellarfun the rules are different for different players in the city.
Chap 91- (Its like talking to a wall)

This is what Cronin had to do to the current property to comply with Chap91
In the interim, the state allowed for a temporary fix — a second-floor viewing deck that could also have outdoor seating space for restaurant customers. The property owner also had to open up the restaurant’s restrooms to the public.

Bottom line: "Chapter 91’s requirement that half of the development area remain open space."
If the commonwealth sticks by this law: Whiskey Priest and the current structure will be around for a long time:
I'm not sure who really gives a shit about Whiskey Priest Development? Especially in that area: There is nobody in that area except a bunch of out of town yuppies & Business professionals who have just moved into new condos getting built everywhere in the area---

*I think article is focused on gearing up to stop another proposal of Harbor Garage or anytype of developments near the Greenway at all costs:

Basically saying CHAP 91 you need 50% open space. But you are also restricted in building high.
So its a lose/lose scenario.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Curious if the 150 Seaport ground floor frontage on Seaport Boulevard was ever discussed in this thread. No need to weigh in pro or con, it's already been approved at BRA board.

CqOl9fiXgAAoPs8.jpg:large
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Curious if the 150 Seaport ground floor frontage on Seaport Boulevard was ever discussed in this thread. No need to weigh in pro or con, it's already been approved at BRA board.

CqOl9fiXgAAoPs8.jpg:large

Extensively.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

^^^^

There is nobody in that area except a bunch of out of town yuppies & Business professionals who have just moved into new condos getting built everywhere in the area--- [/B]

If they own condos and live in the Seaport, they're Boston residents not "out of town-ers." Let's try to be a bit less parochial. It's 2016.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Shirley Leung is usually so intelligent. Not sure which PR team got to her, sounds like the CLF's flaks, but this column is just plain stupid.

I don't even know her point. The current restaurant is bad? So tearing it down is... bad? The new set-up with public waterfront access is... "the price of progress"?

Dumb. Very, very dumb.

HA!! you must have read my post, below. :) i cautioned her a second time to stop being a puppet (after her BARR ASSOCIATION propaganda piece last spring!!) It appears the CLF is playing tag team with Shirley.... wheeling her out on cue for these special events.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...nt-jeopardy/nXe1RISa6XWBPRfP92wEUM/story.html
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

If they own condos and live in the Seaport, they're Boston residents not "out of town-ers." Let's try to be a bit less parochial. It's 2016.

Do you really believe these New Bostonian Residents are fighting against the redevelopment of Whiskey Priest?
They could careless.

Today article is about a bigger agenda concerning Chap 91 Law.

How did Fallon original proposals comply to Chap 91? Those developments are BOXES right on the waterfront
How did the entire Seaport Development comply to CHAP 91 at this point since the developments have created a barrier compared to the open parking lots that were there before-------the parking lots created an OPEN to the Sea concept.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Sicilian, I think that rendering is out of date. I'll explain below.
_____________________________________________

Shirley's article is a meandering mess, but she did do homework before writing it.

Cronin submitted his project plan to the city in April 2016. IMO, the BRA concluded that the plan wasn't going to fly, and they revised it, or had him revise it, but, if the latter, without a subsequent submission from Cronin to the BRA that is on the record at least.

In June 2016, the BRA sent the revised project plan to the state, as part of an amendment to the Harbor Plan for this area.

Comparing the April and June submissions, the size of the site was cut in half, from 50,000 square feet to 25,000 square feet. Cronin, in April, intended to buy all the additional land in fee simple. In June, of the five parcels that would be added to the site, only two -- the parcels owned b y the city, would be purchased in fee simple. Cronin would secure easements for the other three parcels, allowing him to drive pilings.

The ground floors' footprint was reduced by about 15 percent, about 2,000 square feet per floor. (That's why I think Scilian's rendering is no longer accurate.) The ground floor now covers 11,100 square feet: 100 percent of the land Cronin currently owns, and about 600 square feet beyond that (probably sidewalk, as he wouldn't get a 404 permit).

The upper floors' footprint was increased by about 500 square feet, to 15,600 square feet, and it appears this was achieved by increasing the cantilever to 13 feet.

The gross square footage of the building increased from 283,000 to 292,000.

The restaurant is now on two floors, and replaces a carryout. This will allow the ground floor to be raised by several feet in the future.

The number of parking spaces in the garage was reduced to 170. Number of condos remain at 124.
___________________

Speculation on what went down.

The April submission with a 50,000 sq ft site borrowed from an application for a Chapter 91 license by previous owners of the site in the 1990s. The BRA succinctly notes the license was never awarded because of legal issues. Shirley elaborates on that by indicating that Anthony Athanas either wouldn't sell the submerged land that he owned, or the then owners of 150 Seaport Boulevard wouldn't pay his price. (A year after Anthony's death in 2005, Cronin bought the 150 Seaport Blvd. land.) If this is the case, Cronin resurrected the previous license application.

The BRA concluded that Cronin should not, and would not get approval for a building whose footprint significantly exceeded the land-land that he owned or could acquire.

The Barking Crab is cited by the BRA as an example of a potential development site which need not provide any open space if developed. (State law requires at least 50 percent open space, although this can be reduced by offsets. HT garage, if developed, is required to have only 30 percent open space.) However, the earlier application for a Chapter 91 license likely provided for substantial open space. So, if done once, why not again?

The BRA has largely run out of offsets. Cronin is required to provide an offset because his new building will be 4x higher what is allowed by zoning. The offset for this is a $1.5 million contribution to Children's Museum park. The BRA has a set of much more costly offsets which it is reserving for development of the HT garage and Hook's development. (Another possibility is that Cronin isn't willing, at this point, to pay for other offsets. IMO, Cronin is getting away cheap with $1.5 million in offsets, given the extent that his proposal would bend zoning and Chapter 91.)
_________________________

The CLF challenge likely centers on his use of the Harborwalk -- built on pilings on land that he does not own -- to meet the open space requirements of Chapter 91. Thus, the Harborwalk, in essence, is an offset for his inability to meet the open space requirements, yet the Harborwalk is to be built on new-found land that he does not own. Cronin is 'creating' new land for the purpose of an offset because he owns insufficient existing land. If allowed, that would seem to open a Pandora's box.

As is, the design of the proposed Harborwalk makes it appear integral to the property, and simply an extension of the terrace for convivial drinking.

It might be simpler to use the Barking Crab approach, let him build to 100 percent of the lot, and no open space.
[Last para's on CLF edited and added for clarity.]
 
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Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

IMO, Cronin is getting away cheap with $1.5 million in offsets, given the extent that his proposal would bend zoning and Chapter 91.)
_________________________

Like I said before every development has its own rules: You either pay to play to the politicians then they are able to change the rules & policies. And that is why the development process is so flawed for the public. There really is no real public interest.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Rifleman, as to your previous question regarding Fan Pier, the lot coverage was set in the Inner Harbor Plan at 44 percent, meaning the remainder was to be open space. Granted there are buildings between Seaport Boulevard and the water that do not give an uninterrupted, unobstructed view, but Fallon constructed a quarter mile of Harborwalk, which does give an unobstructed view.

One would have to go back to the Fan Pier approval to see how much the various offsets required of Fallon (including the Harborwalk segment on property he already owned) were for lot coverage above 44 percent, and for zoning relief from height.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

The CLF challenge likely centers on his use of the Harborwalk, built on pilings on land that he does not own, to meet the open space requirements of Chapter 91, with the Harborwalk, in essence, being an offset to his inability to meet the open space requirement. As is, the design of the proposed Harborwalk makes it appear integral to the property, simply an extension of the terrace for convivial drinking.

This entire post is a really helpful analysis, thanks.

This last paragraph gets to the heart of the matter for me. There's the technicalities of the Ch 91 process, and then the lived reality over time of the outcome, and the ease of enforceability matters. The current public access at Cronin's site is laughable - I've had beers on that back deck and would never have guessed that it was publically accessible. And to be fair to Cronin, that oddball situation predated his ownership of the property.

The drawn replacement would be a huge improvement IF, and this is a big if, it really was truly open to the public forever. As you note, it looks like an extension of a restaurant's patio seating. I'm sure we can all think of places where private property owners have done the small, incremental creep out into public spaces, and this is most easily done by restaurants with outdoor seating. Just place the tables a few inches farther out one Monday morning, see if anyone notices, wait a while, rinse, repeat. Will either the state or the city enforce this? Will human nature tend to make this easier to get away with? I think so, because as those encroachments reached farther, people would have to get increasingly confrontational to access the public zone. So, I think there's a real concern on that point for the long run, even while I agree that it'd start out as a huge improvement in the short run.

Compare this to Fallon's sites over near the courthouse: given how the landscaping's been done, both on the harborwalk and the private parcels, it's very hard to image how there could be some incremental encroachments over time. The spacing and delineation of private/public space would mean an encroachment would take extreme chutzpah, the sort that would provoke extreme pushback (like encroaching materials getting chucked into the harbor) from a pissed off public. Cronin's site and his site plans, by contrast, look inherently more at risk of the sort of thing of encroachment that could happen subtly enough and slowly enough to possibly (not automatically) be something one could get away with. I'm not impugning Cronin himself here, never met the man, but even if he's a man of integrity, he won't own the parcel forever.

Doesn't mean I turn against the proposal, but it's a legitimate concern.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

The drawn replacement would be a huge improvement IF, and this is a big if, it really was truly open to the public forever. As you note, it looks like an extension of a restaurant's patio seating. I'm sure we can all think of places where private property owners have done the small, incremental creep out into public spaces, and this is most easily done by restaurants with outdoor seating. Just place the tables a few inches farther out one Monday morning, see if anyone notices, wait a while, rinse, repeat. Will either the state or the city enforce this? Will human nature tend to make this easier to get away with? I think so, because as those encroachments reached farther, people would have to get increasingly confrontational to access the public zone. So, I think there's a real concern on that point for the long run, even while I agree that it'd start out as a huge improvement in the short run.

But what's done can be undone. Tables can be moved. The real width of the public way will still far, far exceed what's there currently in terms of constructed space.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare to Fallon. He had much more land to work with.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Sicilian, I think that rendering is out of date. I'll explain below. (continues)

The front elevation in my earlier post was from page 27 of the Planned Development Area (PDA) of 2016-04-19.

I'm pretty sure that the 2016-04-19 PDA is the official draft that was before the BRA board last week.

The PDA is available on the BRA's current project website here.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

But what's done can be undone. Tables can be moved.

Absolutely. But by whom? And my point is that creeping encroachments often are not in fact forced back, sometimes for decades.


The real width of the public way will still far, far exceed what's there currently in terms of constructed space.

Absolutely, as I noted. In the immediate term it's an obvious huge improvement, no argument there.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare to Fallon. He had much more land to work with.

I also think it's not fair to compare to Fallon, but people will do so. And the real comparison I'm aiming at is not to suggest Cronin ought to be held to that same setback level - he can't be, it doesn't exit now and won't ever exist even if his restaurants burned down. I was getting at the inherent risk on a small parcel like Cronin has. Even with a good faith effort that makes a real short term huge improvement, his site is going to carry a greater risk of creeping encroachment than many other sites on the waterfront. This is probably solvable: require a fixed railing along his patio seating perimeter. Even an intermittent rail. And make that part of his permits / CofO / restaurant operating license, etc. Take away the need for some inspector to be playing the cat and mouse game with a tape measure every so often. Or other ideas, I'm open.

I'm pretty sure I can come around to supporting the harborwalk aspect of Cronin's proposal, though I think there's some real issues here that he'll have to work through. This aspect of his proposal to me looks either OK or nearly ok and readily fixable. (The land price thing on the city triangular parcel is also fixable, too).
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

West and Equilibria would Liberty Wharf be a better example than Fallon?
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

West and Equilibria would Liberty Wharf be a better example than Fallon?

To me, absolutely, and their boardwalk takes up much less of their site than Cronin's. The James Hook tower is in a similar situation, too. I'm sure there's some technicality about how the Liberty Wharf site was assembled that makes it not comparable under Chapter 91, though.
 
Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Can Cronin scale down this project at all to make this work?

I actually think it would be an insult to the Seaport to leave Whiskey Park as is---- as the entire area is getting built up with Condos, Commercial, Retail and Restaurants.

Maybe after a night bouncing around Corporate Commercial Park you can hit the OLD WHISKEY PRIEST/ATLANTIC BEER GARDENS to bring back the old CHAP 91 Memories.
 

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