The St Regis Residences (former Whiskey Priest site) | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

[bigpicture7]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

They're mounting a lawsuit to challenge the approval. It may still not happen.

...

As to your first point, it's not about whether the CLF has a good plan to achieve good goals, it's about whether their approach is constructive.

Equilibria, thanks for clarifying your points and I agree. I will amend mine: it's about whether the plan is good AND whether the approach is constructive. And from that background many of you have given, the latter seems often not the case w/CLF.
And as to your point about the lawsuit, I again reference FK4's comment about precedent - they are trying to remain relevant and it may be more about launching the suit than what the suit achieves. We shall see.

And as an hommage to Arlington's very good point about getting this thread back on track, here are some (old but, I believe, still mostly accurate) renders to bump this back to talking about how beautiful this thing is - this to me is seriously one of the most interesting designs proposed in Boston right now:

 

[cca]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Look everyone ... a twisting building! How novel. Now ... how do we get tons of white precast on it?

cca

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Look everyone ... a twisting building! How novel. Now ... how do we get tons of white precast on it?

cca

Or, if things go as planned, from some angles it will hide the white precast from 100 P4!!

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I can't get over the fact that this project will cost $260 million and contain 124 condos. Cronin could sell each condo for $2 million (on average) and the retail space for $10 million, and he'd still end up in the red.

 

[odurandina]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

The Globe protesters are absotutely besides themselves today that such a hulking beautiful building would be put up on a slightly smaller than ideal waterfront parcel. In any case, say for a moment the most over-rated dock in the history of the Atlantic Ocean is blocked for all time - and people are forced to do an end-around the building on their jogs around the Seaport..... Well, i just can't imagine the gutwrench of such unimaginable horror/s.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

1.) The CLF is not threatening to sue the city; there is no city action re: Whiskey Priest that can be litigated with respect to Chapter 91.

2.) If there is a lawsuit, the complaint by CLF would be that the [state] Secretary of Energy and Environmental Affairs' erroneously determined that the Whiskey Priest project met the requirements of Chapter 91.

3.) Before the Secretary makes any determination with regard to Chapter 91, he will hold a public hearing, at which all interested parties can and will provide statements. Most likely, the CLF would testify at the hearing, and set out their position on whether the proponent (Cronin) has satisfied the provisions of Chapter 91, and if not, why, in their view, he has not.
__________________________
The city (and presumably the state) determined that future development of the Barking Crab site required 0 percent open space, so there is flexibility to have substantially less than the notional 50 percent open space requirement of Chapter 91.

Apparently, one can offer open space elsewhere to help satisfy the 50 percent provision. IIRC, the Marriott Long Wharf expansion converts ca small parking lot to open space to help offset the amount of open space lost because of the expansion. The lot is not owned by the Marriott.

 

[Patrick]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

This is on the agenda for Thursday's BRA meeting. They're using eminent domain for some reason...

https://twitter.com/bytimlogan?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Some really good points made in these poses, thanks.

Your implicit question piqued my interest and I did some quick research. Take my following comments with that in mind.

My understanding is that eminent domain is relevant here because the land swap with COB involves property owned by two entities holding eminent domain. Here's what I mean by that confusing sentence: The City has title, and obviously eminent domain, but the public at large also seems to have eminent domain under the common law concept of prior public use. In that case, I believe legislative (State) authority is necessary for municipal exercise of a "taking" of that use...i.e., a transfer of it to a private interest.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Patrick, I think Tim Logan mis-used the term eminent domain.

Cronin owns 10,500 sq ft, fee simple. He will secure easements from Tishman Speyer and the state for another 6,800 sq ft (tidal land). Which leaves the 7,600 square feet (two parcels) from the city of Boston.

If there is any residual public ownership interest in the land owned by the city, it would have to be that this land is filled tidal land, and thus once owned by the Commonwealth. However, to my knowledge a city can never exercise eminent domain against the higher sovereign, i.e., a state. (Eminent domain is typically (always?) used to extinguish a private property right. ---And the tortured, land transfer scheme in Kelo v. city of New London does not apply.)

Tim Logan may possibly have been confused by the appraisal process that the city of Boston intends to use to determine the fair value of the property it would 'sell' to Cronin. As I read it, the sidewalk under the cantilever is in essence an 'air rights' transfer; the sidewalk will remain a 'public' sidewalk.

 

[Patrick]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Thanks for the added thoughts/reply. The more I try to understand what's going on, from the available media publications and filings, the more confused I get (due in large part to a lack of concise argument by CLF, at least in what I've been able to find). Nevertheless, it seems quite strange to me, at a high level, that the organization is accusing the development team of somehow violating a statute which, in its intent, exists (in part) to protect public waterway access. Sure, there may be a technical deficiency in the proposal, and maybe that's a ground for whomever makes the call at the State level to send it back to the drawing board, but I can't understand the CLF comments to date despite that. Does the organization exist to split hairs or to serve a purpose? If the latter, it's purpose would seem to be supported by the proposal as it exists. Someone mentioned their interest in staying relevant, so maybe that's part of it; then there's the precedent it could set I suppose. But regardless the high level point here is, as someone prior to me stated, that no public access now exists, and this project would create it. The CLF's mission is to preserve natural resources, support the economy, and build community. Check, check check.

The very appealing architecture makes this academic dispute all the more interesting to me.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

1.) The city (and presumably the state) determined that future development of the Barking Crab site required 0 percent open space, so there is flexibility to have substantially less than the notional 50 percent open space requirement of Chapter 91.

.

Like I said before Chap 91 laws/rules are different for different players.
Concerning Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Development their is no open between the current buildings that are built.

The law makes no sense concerning existing structures that are already blocking the ocean which already have been affected by CHAP 91.

Chap 91 should only be consider if their is no-existing structure. Too many political games concerning crucial developments.

Either our Lawmakers lack no commonsense or this law is to create political games.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Like I said before Chap 91 laws/rules are different for different players.....

Either our Lawmakers lack no commonsense or this law is to create political games.

Riff -- You hit the BullsEye -- most likely by accident -- but you are the Gold Medal Winner on this one

The Un Official State House Rules of Engagement:

• Everything is a Deal
• No deal is too Small
• --Opportunity always knocks -- There are always a few lose $ lying around waiting to be picked-up by someone who is lying in wait

The Legislature might be full of loons -- but they know on which side there bread is buttered. Just like the CLF the members are almost all are lawyers [mostly from places like Suffolk Law School] -- who do small law [e.g. real estate] as opposed to big corporate law -- so they construct all laws to make it beneficial to be a lawyer [of their own caliber -- i.e. small bore] with a license to practice in Massachusetts [aka a member of the Massachusetts Legislature or one of their friends]

Chapter 91 and similar blah blah blah is a prime example -- and note that despite quite few things changing since the late 1800's -- nothing is ever replaced -- just amended -- creating even more confusion and hence "Opportunity"

 

[odurandina]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

where: Seaport

what: best midrise project in Boston (to replace Lovejoy Wharf).

bonus: watching nimby extremists pullin' their hair out

extra: lawsuits going nowhere. put this (glass box) in the refrigerator

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Talking to the wall here, but...

^^^^Long Wharf

^^^Atlantic Ave.

This is the application of Chapter 91 before 1978. There is no public access. So if one goes back to Chapter 91 as it once was, this is what the waterfront, glitzed and glammed, will look like again: no public access.

 

[odurandina]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

it's seven o'clock, and the ring leaders already got their jungle riled up.....

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...eal-seaport/UzD7dseJ37DBda9C7YIl0H/story.html

 

[West]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I hope this project moves forward as designed, looks like a great plan.

But $55,000? I'm not a Boston taxpayer, and if the taxpayers of Boston are OK with giving away land like that, I don't directly care. But as an outside observer: holy freaking hell, what a giveaway.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I hope this project moves forward as designed, looks like a great plan.

But $55,000? I'm not a Boston taxpayer, and if the taxpayers of Boston are OK with giving away land like that, I don't directly care. But as an outside observer: holy freaking hell, what a giveaway.

I don't know all the facts here, but since the City couldn't have sold or used that land under any other circumstances, doesn't this $55K go in with whatever benefits he's giving the city as a condition of approval? The park he's building in front of the Childrens' Museum, the Harborwalk... whatever else there is?

Developers provide packages of public benefits. I suppose the City could have driven a hard bargain, but if they'd doubled their take, would Cronin have refused to spend the balance on something else?

This is different from Winthrop Square, where the city had multiple bidders and chose to make an extra $75 million. Cronin is the only one who wants this parcel.

It's also worth noting that the Globe isn't reporting on the news here, it's inventing the news. No one objected to this before Tim Logan went around soliciting outrage for the story.

 

[617]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I hope this project moves forward as designed, looks like a great plan.

But $55,000? I'm not a Boston taxpayer, and if the taxpayers of Boston are OK with giving away land like that, I don't directly care. But as an outside observer: holy freaking hell, what a giveaway.

Maybe a tad low but how much is it worth? $100K? For a non build-able pretty much useless piece of land? Not worth holding up the project for but I'm sure somehow it will.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I hope this project moves forward as designed, looks like a great plan.

But $55,000? I'm not a Boston taxpayer, and if the taxpayers of Boston are OK with giving away land like that, I don't directly care. But as an outside observer: holy freaking hell, what a giveaway.

Assuming Cronin's current lease of the space is a 12 month lease, the yearly payment to the city of Boston for his use of the sidewalk is about $20,000.

Rather than sell Cronin the sidewalk for $55,000, give him a 99 year ground lease at $1,720 a month. The city in three years would get more income from the ground lease than it would from the sale.

The state isn't selling him the tidal lands, its giving him an easement, so Cronin is willing to build without having title to all the land-land and tidal-land on which he proposes to build.

 

[navigator4]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

It's also worth noting that the Globe isn't reporting on the news here, it's inventing the news. No one objected to this before Tim Logan went around soliciting outrage for the story.

The Globe inventing news...what a shock?

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: Whiskey Priest/Atlantic Beer Garden Redevelopment | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I am a boston taxpayer, and I want a harborwalk rather than a couple of dive bars, and yes they can have that sliver of land if they give us that in return...jeez. This is like fining someone for building you a free park. That said, we should get as much value in return as possible, but not past the point where we kill this development.

The issue w/ the complainers is not value parity of the transaction; the issue is that residents are jealous of developers making money. As y'all know, 100% for keeping the dev's in check (seriously, they can be scumbags and exploiters), but, c'mon the jealousy thing is so 3rd grade.