Urban Ring

found5dollar said:
I personally thing expanding the silverline to the airport T-stop makes alot of sense. The T can retire it's fleet of shuttle busses with out any change in service..
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Those buses are Massport's, and they'll still need them for inter-terminal travel, economy and employee parking, and Harborside Drive.
 
You know, expanding the silver line to chelsea isn't that bad of an idea if it was actually light rail (or heavy rail). An actual line.
 
Two things:

- I keep seeing "no signal prioritization for buses" and "no bus lanes" in the documents.

- The Silver Line from Airport station will not get you to the airport? Tourists will be... confused.
 
hahahaha....none of that will ever happen!!!

We don't have 10 billion dollars for rail....
 
Three better words:

Cut wasteful programs.


Plenty of money to take from shitty things.
 
Must resist desire to rant to avoid irking Statler & exciting TheRifleman................read post in General Forum about off topic ranting.......

I've become of the opinion that the Urban Ring really is a semi-useless expenditure of funding on studies for projects which will never come to fruition. It would be better for the state and MBTA to spend the money on fixing the Red Line signals and upgrading the Green Line's pathetic signal and traffic light priority system. Providing better service with existing lines should be taking priority over wasting money on what is generally expected to never be built.

If the MBTA wants to spend money on studies the only ones that really matter right now are the Blue Line extensions to Lynn & Charles MGH.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
Three better words:

Cut wasteful programs.


Plenty of money to take from shitty things.
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I read this morning that we spent $800 billion on the Iraq war. Surely a country that can do that, can find a measly $10 billion for an important transit project in one of its leading cities.
 
Lurker said:
Must resist desire to rant to avoid irking Statler & exciting TheRifleman................read post in General Forum about off topic ranting.......

I've become of the opinion that the Urban Ring really is a semi-useless expenditure of funding on studies for projects which will never come to fruition. It would be better for the state and MBTA to spend the money on fixing the Red Line signals and upgrading the Green Line's pathetic signal and traffic light priority system. Providing better service with existing lines should be taking priority over wasting money on what is generally expected to never be built.

If the MBTA wants to spend money on studies the only ones that really matter right now are the Blue Line extensions to Lynn & Charles MGH.
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Agreed. But choosing self-defeating incompatible modes also scuttles things that should be buildable. Case-in-point: the UR has a leg out to Logan using the hardly ever used freight storage tracks next to Sullivan, 2 of the 4 former Eastern Route tracks, the abandoned south leg of the Chelsea wye, and the abandoned East Boston branch to Logan. If they did the smart thing and made it light rail from the start the GLX extension puts the storage yard and lead tracks smack on alignment to those Sullivan tracks. The only major new infrastructure required to get out there is either a new Mystic River crossing in the Assembly area or widened crossing along the Eastern Route, then putting back the rail drawbridge bridge that used to be next to the Chelsea St. bridge. Rest is track, overhead, and 2 quick underpasses of other track at BET and getting on the other side of the Eastern Route. Otherwise the service runs off Lechmere as another branch and costs less than the current extension due to fewer stations and no disruption to commuter rail vs. the total rebuild of the Lowell corridor. That's buildable now without dependencies on any other piece of the UR puzzle (like figuring out how to displace the RR on the Grand Junction).

So why's there the BRT Phase II that paves a road over the whole damn thing, including a bunch of ramps and on-street dives around spots the RR ROW doesn't support. THEN specs a conversion to rail in Phase III that renders both II and III monuments to senseless waste?

A whole extra phase for a wholly incompatible mode for something they can build for billions less as an extra branch off an existing mode! That's an insta-kill. Nobody in their right mind would waste the only shot at building transit with intentionally bad transit. Then do it twice...because? It's worse than Silver Line Phase III, another project that could've been built for a billion or two less if they didn't plan to totally duplicate infrastructure for an incompatible, clumsier mode that the designers themselves implicitly didn't trust long-term.

Stupid, insincere, or both? You have to wonder with how patently ludicrous the designs were for each of the 1990's-proposed transit megaprojects. Not saying they would've been built, but if Captain Obvious were drawing them up they at least would've passed the laugh test and still been on some long-range plan.

Blue Line you can at least say was designed by Captain Obvious (i.e. BERy, in 1945, back when we still knew how to design straightforward transit) and know with dead-on certainty that it'll work as intended. Straight-up if/how fast can we afford, not "Will this turkey even fly?" UR, SL III, and N-S Link are vitally important 21st century projects. And I wouldn't spend one second's more thought or money planning them from the current designs unless they stopped dicking around and totally re-drafted them as something that makes basic-most conceptual sense.
 
Re: Urban Ring (East Boston Bypass Road)

Massport has said they've broken ground converting a section of CSX track immediately east of the Airport to serve shuttles, taxis and freight that would otherwise be using East Boston streets. This below-grade right-of-way is usually included in Urban Ring concepts as the section that connects the Airport to Chelsea.

http://www.massport.com/news-room/News/MassportBreaksGroundonEastBostonBypassRoad.aspx

Plans and schematics here: http://www.massport.com/environment/environmental_reporting/Documents/Environmental Filings/EastBostonChelseaBypassENF.pdf

In this case they're taking out the tracks to put in two 12 foot asphalt lanes with 4 foot shoulders from near the Blue Line and the Airport Station to the Chelsea
 
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A two-lane paved road is not a deal killer for a future light rail line. If they were putting in a trail, I'd be worried because then you would have NIMBY's and 4F park preservation laws to battle when/if an LRV line were to be proposed. But a two-lane road can be removed much more easily than a trail, especially an unimportant road such as this one.
 
Charlie_mta said:
A two-lane paved road is not a deal killer for a future light rail line. If they were putting in a trail, I'd be worried because then you would have NIMBY's and 4F park preservation laws to battle when/if an LRV line were to be proposed. But a two-lane road can be removed much more easily than a trail, especially an unimportant road such as this one.
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MassPort is the literal definition of government evil. They have their own agenda and have no regard for other agencies, entities, or people. They're only out for their own bottom line and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they just blockaded an Urban Ring to Airport until Logan moves (if ever).
 
Pretty sorely needed as a Haul Road. That neighborhood's suffered enough; getting the trucks off Bennington and Chelsea near the residences is worthy of it as an environmental justice project. I think it's a good project.

Doesn't eat up very much ROW, though, since it starts south of Curtis St. and ends under 1A at the corner of Frankfort and Lovell. 3+ blocks. Any UR build--bus, rail, dune buggy, whatever--uses the ROW from Broadway in Chelsea to Curtis for almost 4x the length of this, plus another 1/3 mile to Airport station hugging 1A next to the East Boston Greenway. The Eastern Route used to go all the way to the docks as a 4-track mainline prior to elevated 1A's construction, so that embankment fill is for the most part postwar. In the Haul Road design they re-landscape it rather than get rid of it. Doing retaining walls, scooping out the fill, and widening the Bennington and Saratoga overpasses nets a full 4-lane roadway if they choose to go there later (plus similar space under elevated 1A deck for the truck turnout where they diverge).

I don't think even in a bus configuration they wanted total 1:1 intermixing with trucks on the Haul Road because of the sharply diverging traffic at Frankfort and Chelsea. That would've sharply constrained speeds and headways and have been ill-advised for CNG buses running Airport expresses in merging single-lane traffic with tankers full of jet fuel. Unless, of course, they made a compromise where no traffic on the road was allowed to go more than 10 MPH and there was a pointless stop signal in the middle of it. But they'd never do that on a shiny BRT crown jewel, would they? :rolleyes:


This doesn't preclude any option, as by design Phase III had to allow for light- or heavy-rail conversion on the same exact ROW as the "intermediary" BRT phase (*cue hysterical laughter*). So if they wanted to follow their own plans, they widen the cut for BRT Phase II. And get full traffic-separated, rumble-strip buffered bus lanes that are pre-existing wide enough to later slap down a fence and put rail behind. Riiiiiight?


Of course, if they were honest about following their own plan, and honest about making the investment to widen the road...they'd also have to be honestly questioning about "Why the hell are we building a Phase II when we can skip right to Phase III?"



Yeah, er...so 10 MPH stop-and-go crawl behind exhaust-belching gas tankers it is. Oh, and Fat Tony is real sorry for the rough ride in the Transitway. He promises to maybe try harder, maybe, on this pavement bid we also gave him.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
MassPort is the literal definition of government evil. They have their own agenda and have no regard for other agencies, entities, or people. They're only out for their own bottom line and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they just blockaded an Urban Ring to Airport until Logan moves (if ever).
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Urb -- that sounds like someone's campaign rhetoric from a few decades ago -- i.e. when 4,5,7 used to congregate on Neptune Road to shoot B-reel on 747's landing on the roofs of houses.

Since then -- Massport has become a creature of the Governor, the DOT and to a lesser extent the legislature (since Massport is self-funding the tie to the legislature is not as strong).

"Massport is governed by a seven member Board, six members are appointed to staggered, seven-year terms by the Governor of Massachusetts. The seventh member is the Secretary of Transportation and serves ex officio. All members serve without compensation."

Massport now coordinates to a significant extent wih the MBTA and the Highway Department especially after transfering the ownership of the Tobin bridge under the DOT unification legislation.

http://www.massport.com/news-room/News/MassportBreaksGroundonEastBostonBypassRoad.aspx

“This is a major investment and we look forward to a new two-lane bypass road 12 months from now when we officially open it leaving the East Boston community improved traffic flow as well as improved air quality with the removal of a significant amount of airport-related commercial traffic from local streets,” said Massport Interim CEO David Mackey.

The two-lane roadway will be used by airport-related commercial traffic only and will consist of Massport shuttle buses which transport airport workers to and from a 1,500 space garage in Chelsea, taxis and MBTA buses serving Logan Airport and cargo vehicles.

“I am very pleased to be here today at this groundbreaking ceremony and I thank Massport for advancing the bypass road, which will provide such a benefit to the community. The bypass road will take trucks off residential streets, improve air quality and enhance local neighborhoods. I have been fighting for this project since I took office and although it took a long time to get to this day, I look forward to the completion of the bypass road,” stated Congressman Mike Capuano.

As Coughlin envisioned, the road will run along an abandoned CSX rail corridor between Frankfort Street and Lovell Street where a traffic light will be placed. The northern end of the bypass, which will run about one-half mile in length, will split with northbound traffic intersecting Chelsea Street via a former rail spur slightly north of Beck Street. Southbound traffic will enter the bypass roadway at Beck Street.

“I am very excited about this long-anticipated project because of the positive, measurable benefits that will be realized for our environment and residents,” said Senator Anthony Petruccelli. ”It is very appropriate that the road be named in honor of Marty Coughlin.’’ City Councilor Salvatore LaMattina agreed saying he worked with Coughlin to promote the idea in the 1980s. The bypass road “has been a long time coming,” LaMattina said.

Other local amenities include landscaping along Frankfort Street and a bicycle and pedestrian path linking the East Boston Greenway through Breman Street Park with the Bennington Street Neptune Road area. The project will create 46 construction jobs and is expected to be complete in October 2012."


As for moving Logan -- when the glaciers next advance to the NH border they'll start thinking about moving the runways to the Cape
 
The only way building a section of the Urban Ring through Everett and Chelsea would make sense would be if those two towns created large redevelopment plans for that industrial no-man's land with plans for thousands of new residential units, parks, and commercial/hotels. Hong Kong does this as a way to pay for extensions of it's subway.

It's not a bad idea but one that would need to jump through a lot of hoops and planning would have to start tomorrow to even think about breaking ground when the economy is better. Given how fast the Assembly Sq project has taken and the fact that development at Wellington Station never took off doesn't bode well for such a proposal.

So basically... it's probably best that they just create a haul road.
 
If not through Chelsea, then what route would make sense? I've always been concerned about that stretch, but figured it could be designed as a high speed express section, stopping only at the Chelsea commuter rail station, before beginning a more local type service as it heads into Somerville.
 
Bus route connectivity makes Chelsea the best fit for UR. 6 routes pass through there, fed from Maverick, Community College, and Wonderland. Then the would-be Everett stop catches 8 more routes out of Sullivan and Wellington/Malden Ctr. (route convergence point there residue from when the Orange Line used to terminate at Everett). Plus 3 Maverick-originating As that's a hodgepodge of Orange and Blue routes terminating at 5 rather varied rapid transit stops the load-spreading justification for a radial line starts to reveal itself. Look at it on the system map with all the bus routes and it's a lot more self-evident.

Of course, only 1/5 of the Ring's total length covers this one segment, so can't look at that in a vacuum beyond it's the easiest of the grade-separated segments to tackle first were construction ever a temporal possibility. Rest of the route is more where this came from on tying big bundles of transfers together the rest of the way around the horn. There's no question the ROUTE is exactly as useful and bullish-ridership as advertised. It's only the choice of mode and two ungodly expensive duplicate phases for quadruple the price that once again beg the question, "Stupid, disingenuous, or both?"
 
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