Waterside Place 1A | 505 Congress Street | Seaport

Also ...

Better to have "Buyers' Place" and "Natural Market" than "A Lot Of Shit For A Dollar", I guess.

Question: are there any other cities where this kind of development has taken place and what were the results?

I don't know enough of what's out there to even think of anything.

They built a couple museums down where the Moscone Convention Center is, in SF, but is that similar enough?
 
3.5 Million SF of space across the Street from the Convention Center and the WTC?
Walking Distance to South Bay (aka Beirut) WTF Not a walk I wanna take!

Anybody else notice it goes over the Ted Williams Tunnel right where the plenum fell onto traffic? This will be sweet to build, I am sure when the plenum falls again MassHighway will point the finger...
 
I've always liked the mall idea at this location. They are taking this model from another, very successfully, development within Boston. This is the new Copley Place.

Building over a highway has limitations, but this development will help make a connection between the scattered buildings that now occupy the Seaport. Also they have learned to keep the street active, which was the one mistake with Copley Place.

I also expect tenants to be lining up to lease space in this mall. It is surrounded by hotels with people just waiting to spend money. And the current isolation of the seaport is probably a plus for this development. All people staying in the seaport will definitely use this mall, but I don't know if all will get in a cab or take the silverline to another destination in Boston. (unless the silverline was another branch of the green line then it may get more use)
 
Providence Place might be a good analogy. But why take out the cinema? Boston needs another movie theatre, and this is going to be surrounded by hotels and other attractions.
 
Re: Also ...

IMAngry said:
Better to have "Buyers' Place" and "Natural Market" than "A Lot Of Shit For A Dollar", I guess.

Question: are there any other cities where this kind of development has taken place and what were the results?

I don't know enough of what's out there to even think of anything.

They built a couple museums down where the Moscone Convention Center is, in SF, but is that similar enough?
Click to expand...

The list of malls operated by the co-developer can be found on the link below. For the most part, a rather unimpressive set and not what I would consider to be destination malls. Very big in Florida.

http://www.urbanretail.com/urpweb.nsf/fsProperties?OpenFrameSet
 
Wow.

The perspectives just make me think of an over-sized supermarket.

The one thing I found interesting was the difference between what the color perspectives showed and what the last image (the black and white exterior elevation drawing). They're of the same building, but can be interpreted quite differently.

The last image (elevation) made me think that this development could be so much better if they didn't just use identical wooden panels in each section...but instead made each section a bit different (but within a similar theme) to break it up...kind of like a block in the Back Bay where rowhouses sit side by side. Each row house follows the same template (set backs, bays, etc...) but each is also unique.

Instead of those big BLANK wooden facade segments, I wish they could use those sections to create a streetwall. Looking at that elevation, I see a block of Commonwealth Avenue with separate buildings side by side. I can just imagine some windows (even mock windows or windows to display products in the stores behind them). Each "rowhouse" section could be slightly different than the next (slightly different color, slightly different windows, different roof).

I don't want this building to be a Disneyfied version of reality....but I think it would be possible (beneficial) to make this feel less like one single development and more like a collection of buildings.
 
Re: Also ...

stellarfun said:
IMAngry said:
Better to have "Buyers' Place" and "Natural Market" than "A Lot Of Shit For A Dollar", I guess.

Question: are there any other cities where this kind of development has taken place and what were the results?

I don't know enough of what's out there to even think of anything.

They built a couple museums down where the Moscone Convention Center is, in SF, but is that similar enough?
Click to expand...

The list of malls operated by the co-developer can be found on the link below. For the most part, a rather unimpressive set and not what I would consider to be destination malls. Very big in Florida.

http://www.urbanretail.com/urpweb.nsf/fsProperties?OpenFrameSet
Click to expand...



Urban Retail is no longer a partner. Vornado has now joined with The Drew Co.
 
for the people who don't like it, could you give some reasons as to why you feel that way?

a mall's a mall's a mall ... if you're going to have one it should be well designed, as this one looks like it is. so whats the problem?
 
^ I think it's just the sheer scale of the thing that's caught some people off guard. Once that shock wears off I imagine we'll hear more say they don't mind, or even perhaps like, the design.

Although I agree with snarl71 to an extent in regards to making the western facade less monotonous, I really don't think it's a bad looking project at all. And the big thing - street-level activation - looks to be about as good as it'll get on something that consumes some 5 acres. At the very least, it sure looks to have Copley Place and the Cambridgeside Galleria beat in that and the looks departments, and by a lot.
 
After looking over it again, i do like it now. It is massive, but has its urban elements. It would be real nice if the facade came out to be similar to the McAllen building, because that building looks sweet.

So, is this actually approved and going to be built or...?
 
oh yeah, and parking? I hope to god they don't make this a car-commuter mall. This, provided with the rest of the seaport development is more than enough to convert silver line to light rail, or even rapit transit.
 
but how do you convert the silver line to light rail, and still have it connect to the airport?
 
Have any of you seen Buffalo's city hall?

This is one of the most beautiful buildings I've ever seen.

Too bad it's in Buffalo. Too bad something similar to this (on a shorter scale) won't be built on the waterfront. Too bad we have to deal with a mega-mall.


http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=369236
 
That's a great building bos, but have you seen anything even closely resembling that built within the past 50 years? The days of grand, ornate brick and stone buildings is long gone and it's far too costly to bring back. Can you imagine trying to build something like that in today's dollars? You would either have to spend billions or end up with a cheap imitation, probably both.
 
Re: Also ...

Urban Retail is no longer a partner. Vornado has now joined with The Drew Co.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction. I had mistakenly relied on an out-of-date but still active website for Waterside Place.
 
Of course it's a great city hall if living in the past is your thing. If we could have a historic city hall, I could go on all day with ones I would rather have: Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, Cleveland, St. Louis, San Francisco, Louisville, hell, even a dump like Cincinnati has one better than Boston. But since that isn't reality, get over the daydreams and think about a real solution to a real problem rather than constantly bitching.
 
I'm still a big fan of Toronto's. Modern in every way, and an instant icon for the city.
 
Why would it cost billions? It would cost the same amount as it did back then, adjusted for inflation only. Ornate Brick and Stone haven't outpaced inflation any more than gasoline or playing cards. Neither has labor.

I think that you, KMP, could explain to us the basics of inflation and its relation to building cost, as we are all financial laymen and don't operate multi million dollar hedge funds at age 22. I'd like to be informed as to why a city hall like Buffalo's is a daydream.

Waterside place may still be innovative. I just think it looks stupid.
 
I agree with kz....the size of the things is what turned me off right away. I was in a class when I pulled up the webpage and it made me nearly choke. It's just so big that it's hard to look at the good parts of this development. However, after I got over the size of the building, I really really started to like the design. Overall I would say that this is a very attractive building, but the big block size really is a turnoff. It'd be great if they could figure out a way to make this more pedestrian-friendly, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. We all knew this was going to be a massive block, but at least we can be happy that the building has a great design.
 
Given the fact that this is basically a Big Bad Mall, I'm very impressed with the design. This seems to be an example of the ICA inspiring better design in the area, as the initial designs for Waterside Place were far more bland. Of course, it'd be nice to see some renderings of the interior spaces as well...

As for Buffalo's city hall, something like that would never happen here -- and rightfully so. (It is the 21st century, after all -- why shouldn't our new buildings be contemporary?)
 
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