What would you do to get the T out of its financial mess?

[davem]

MBCR just runs trains. They don't do capital planning, construction or finance. What I propose is a statewide transit agency with authority over all rail. Leave the buses and subways with the T but take out commuter rail. The agency should have all of the commuter rail expansion projects and debt separate from MBTA. The T and MassDOT get too caught up in CR projects to the detriment of core services. I believe that the T needs to focus on the bus and rapid transit network and making repairs and upgrades. The new agency would manage all of the tracks that are now in the DOT inventory, manage the CR operations contract, develop freight business, manage the many CR expansion projects, the South Station expansion, interface with Amtrak, Eventually do the Connecticut River line services and make Boston-Springfield rail happen. Even Boston-Concord NH service.

Commuter rail finance needs to be disconnected from MBTA finance. Much of the debt that is dragging on the T is Greenbush and other CR stuff. Move it all out and into a discrete business unit that one can work on and manage. All of the assessments from CR only communities should be directed here as well as ticket revenue and freight revenue. Looking at rail as a single entity with limited revenues may bring some sanity back to the capital planning process.

Without all of the many CR projects, the T might be able to better compete for Green Line extension dollars and other state of good repair funds.

I would agree to an extent, but I would want to see the commuter rail pass still be able to be used on the subway, bus, etc.

Also there would need to be active communication between the two agencies, so if we ever have a repeat of the Kenmore flood in 96 things like scrambling a commuter rail shuttle from Riverside would still be doable.

Also, who gets control of the ferries?


I do thing that SOMETHING needs to be done to separate the competition for commuter rail projects from rapid transit projects. The fact that the hundreds of thousands in studies has derailed (pun not intended, but appreciated) practically every other project for the past decade is case in point of why the current system is broken.




On the other side, I would really like to see stronger incentives for regional TAs to adopt the Charlie Card for payment. I would be much more likely to use buses in other places if I knew my card would work there, versus having to carry cash and hope its enough. For more pie in the sky dreams, I would love to see RIPTA adopt the charliecard as well.

 

[Scalziand]

For what it's worth, WRTA has converted to the Charlie Card.

 

[Ron Newman]

Hell, I'd like to see the MBTA-subsidized private suburban bus systems adopt the Charlie Card. I'm looking at you, Paul Revere Bus in Winthrop.

 

[davem]

Hell, I'd like to see the MBTA-subsidized private suburban bus systems adopt the Charlie Card. I'm looking at you, Paul Revere Bus in Winthrop.

That was exactly what spawned the thought for me!

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

For what it's worth, WRTA has converted to the Charlie Card.

BAT has too, which is key for them because they outright intermix with the T's bus district and offer direct rapid transit transfers at Ashmont and Central Ave.

 

[winstonoboogie]

Besides BAT in Brockton and WRTA in Worcester, CATA in Gloucester, MVRTA in Lawrence/Haverhill, LRTA in Lowell, MWRTA in Framingham, SRTA in New Bedford /Fall River and CCRTA on the Cape all take stored-value Charlie Cards.

Also, since July 2012, Paul Revere in Winthrop will take 7-day and Monthly passes printed on Charlie Tickets (but still no Charlie Cards)

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

How expensive would it be to get the rest of Mass on the T's fare system?

A Scheidt & Bachmann system.
http://www.scheidt-bachmann.com/en/home/

From what was explained to me at the MBTA you can take the CharlieCard and use at some supermarket in Germany, it should work because it's all by S&B. It would do the conversion of US$ to Euro and withdraw that from the RFID.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

A Scheidt & Bachmann system.
http://www.scheidt-bachmann.com/en/home/

From what was explained to me at the MBTA you can take the CharlieCard and use at some supermarket in Germany, it should work because it's all by S&B. It would do the conversion of US$ to Euro and withdraw that from the RFID.

It's a lot like EZPass on road tolls. For the different states that implement it they may have wildly disparate computer servers for collecting and managing the tolls, some newer and some really archaic. All EZPass does is standardize the transponder and reader hardware and act as a translation layer to the back end so the transponders can act as 'common currency' amongst these very different back-office collection systems. Charlie's almost literally no different from EZPass at the RFID transponder and reader level. So if the T has a modern back office rolled out from-scratch 5 years ago and WRTA or somebody is running some ancient mainframe from the 70's...as long as the translation layer can be grafted on to send the fares to whoever they need to be sent to and do whatever tracking of the card is required, it can talk to anyone.

RIDOT's probably going to be the next big one to tether off Charlie when its commuter rail services start. South County and Woonsocket need to be able to easily transfer to the Providence Line. So do RIPTA buses. This could easily become the New England transit equivalent of EZPass...covering every conceivable form of it within 2 degrees of separation from the T. Pretty much the only regional break from it would be CTDOT, which has Shore Line East by necessity tethered to Metro North's fare collection back-end and probably will have NHHS commuter rail do the same. Might make coordination with Charlie at Westerly and Springfield transfer points a little difficult, but they can work on that when they work on that. It's certainly possible that one farecard could get you anywhere on public transit in 5 of 6 NE states.

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

It's a lot like EZPass on road tolls. For the different states that implement it they may have wildly disparate computer servers for collecting and managing the tolls, some newer and some really archaic. All EZPass does is standardize the transponder and reader hardware and act as a translation layer to the back end so the transponders can act as 'common currency' amongst these very different back-office collection systems. Charlie's almost literally no different from EZPass at the RFID transponder and reader level. So if the T has a modern back office rolled out from-scratch 5 years ago and WRTA or somebody is running some ancient mainframe from the 70's...as long as the translation layer can be grafted on to send the fares to whoever they need to be sent to and do whatever tracking of the card is required, it can talk to anyone.

Perhaps more relevant to this discussion than you might think is that EZPass doesn't work outside of the EZPass district - which, to be fair, is most of the Northeast and some of the Midwest. However, you're in for a rude surprise if you try to use your EZPass in Florida.

In theory, EZPass and Sunpass (as well as EZPass and all of the west coast agencies) are going to be interoperable by 2016, but I'm not holding my breath.

RIDOT's probably going to be the next big one to tether off Charlie when its commuter rail services start. South County and Woonsocket need to be able to easily transfer to the Providence Line. So do RIPTA buses. This could easily become the New England transit equivalent of EZPass...covering every conceivable form of it within 2 degrees of separation from the T. Pretty much the only regional break from it would be CTDOT, which has Shore Line East by necessity tethered to Metro North's fare collection back-end and probably will have NHHS commuter rail do the same. Might make coordination with Charlie at Westerly and Springfield transfer points a little difficult, but they can work on that when they work on that. It's certainly possible that one farecard could get you anywhere on public transit in 5 of 6 NE states.

It's just too damn bad that you can't actually use Charlie on the Providence Line, nor can you on any other commuter rail service, and that implementing functionality to use Charlie on RIDOT trains would add additional layers of complexity rather than simplifying things.

Talking about coordinating between Metro North's fares and Charlie's is jumping the gun in a huge way. Let's see the MBTA figure out how to actually implement Charlie on the commuter rail first, before we start talking big about a regional EZPass for train fares.

And no, the half-baked mobile app they decided to release before it was actually finished does NOT count.

 

[choo]

The conductors have to go around and see everyone anyway. I don't see why they can't have a simple tap system in which they just select a destination.they had similar hardware on the hingham boat when I last took it

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

The conductors have to go around and see everyone anyway. I don't see why they can't have a simple tap system in which they just select a destination.they had similar hardware on the hingham boat when I last took it

Obstinance.

I'm dead serious. The stated MBTA/MBCR position on this matter is "CharlieCard is never coming to the commuter rail. End of discussion." They have no technical leg to stand on, and they know it, so they've resorted to the grade-school-recess "it's not happening BECAUSE IT JUST ISN'T" position.

 

[cozzyd]

Don't know if this has been asked before, but is there a technical reason the T can't do something similar to what Caltrain does with the Clipper card (tagging on and off)?

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

Don't know if this has been asked before, but is there a technical reason the T can't do something similar to what Caltrain does with the Clipper card (tagging on and off)?

See my previous post, although at least in THAT case it would require retrofitting our FVMs with the tag on/tag off technology and then rolling them out to every commuter rail station systemwide, so there's at least a legitimate technical and logistical barrier (most commuter rail stations lack FVMs at present) to doing it.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Perhaps more relevant to this discussion than you might think is that EZPass doesn't work outside of the EZPass district - which, to be fair, is most of the Northeast and some of the Midwest. However, you're in for a rude surprise if you try to use your EZPass in Florida.

In theory, EZPass and Sunpass (as well as EZPass and all of the west coast agencies) are going to be interoperable by 2016, but I'm not holding my breath.

You'd be surprised how interoperable it's gotten already. 10 years ago it was only the 3 founding EZPass states: NY, NJ, and PA. Now DE, IL, IN, MA, ME, MD, NC, NH, OH, RI, VA, and WV have joined ,as well as Ontario for the Canadian side of the Peace Bridge to NY. Usable to pay for parking at all Port Authority airports in NY/NJ, Pittsburgh Int'l, and at Westwood/128 station (hopefully a sign of some future Charlie and EZPass interoperability at T garages). In VA their next-gen transponders can tell when you're traveling in a regular pay lane or in the free HOV lanes. And NY also did a short-lived pilot program for paying at rest stop McDonald's drive-thru's.

The only stragglers in the member states are several bridges run by independent authorities that opted out of the program, the OH/KY border, and the other 6 NY/Ontario border crossing bridges (which are under negotiation). I don't know what the warring camps are nationwide for interoperability, but EZPass is well on its way to ruling all east-of-Mississippi unless Florida exerts pushback. That's not bad. Even if the integration stalemated at, like, 3 different regions that is a hell of a lot of progress in a short decade. It's to the point where USDOT could get involved, especially if they start relaxing the tolling rules for Interstates.

It's just too damn bad that you can't actually use Charlie on the Providence Line, nor can you on any other commuter rail service, and that implementing functionality to use Charlie on RIDOT trains would add additional layers of complexity rather than simplifying things.

I don't know what exactly the hangup is with commuter rail, but it apparently is legitimately more complicated than anticipated. It's no big deal if it takes half the decade to get it right, but the T needs to be roundly criticized for throwing in the towel on even trying and thinking those smartphone tix are going to cover all the potential customer base. I don't have even have a data plan with my phone. If I want to catch the Fitchburg Line out of Porter like I did a couple times last year I don't relish the thought of getting jacked for a higher fare if I don't go downtown to pre-buy.

 

[jdrinboston]

Hell, I'd like to see the MBTA-subsidized private suburban bus systems adopt the Charlie Card. I'm looking at you, Paul Revere Bus in Winthrop.

As a daily Winthrop commuter, I second this.

BTW...how did Winthrop come to have a private bus provider, rather than the MBTA system?

 

[Ron Newman]

If I want to catch the Fitchburg Line out of Porter like I did a couple times last year I don't relish the thought of getting jacked for a higher fare if I don't go downtown to pre-buy.

You can buy a commuter rail ticket at the FVM in Porter Square station, for the same price you'd pay at North Station. You only pay a penalty fare if you buy your ticket on the train there.

 

[JohnAKeith]

New items for sale at the MBTA Gifts shop on Mass Ave in Cambridge (between Porter and Harvard squares).

How about a Red Line station coin bank for the lucky lady (or man) in your life?

http://www.mbtagifts.com/shop.php?c=n

 

[davem]

New way for the T to get out of hock:

Change the charter to allow for bar cars.

Costs would be pretty minimal, hire regular bartenders ($2/hr) to staff the car. Convert old coaches to bar cars by building a wall a third of the way through so the car can hold enough booze for a day or to. If its placed directly behind the locomotive you wouldn't have to worry about through car egress. I'm sure the T's shops could fabricate some kind of lounge setup by reconfiguring existing seats and fabricating tables.

I could see this pretty much instantaneously making the CR profitable. I could see $5-14 price point working just fine and making a killing. Metro North and NJ Transit allow beer and such on their trains, and in general commuters would enjoy being able to relax on their way home. It would probably also lead to a big spike in ridership: many people won't abandon their cars for the price of gas, environmental consciousness, or to relax and not have to drive. But being able to have a few drinks on the way home? Hell yeah!

And then the potential for sales on game days or on the ski train, you have a profit machine.

The only obstacle I can really see is Mass's quaker sensibilities.

 

[George_Apley]

^ More Puritan than Quaker, but yup. That would definitely make the Worcester, Fitchburgh, Providence and other hour+ Commuter Rail rides more bearable. Only afternoon commute service I'd imagine, don't want our workers slamming 'em back at 7am after all

 

[timsox6]

One of the MBTA's biggest problems is that it got hit with all the Big Dig debt, despite the fact that it was not as involved as other agencies. To pay off that debt, we really just need higher taxes, but MA house and senate are both lead by largely anti-tax people. A great way to raise revenue would be to link a person's driver's/ car insurance to the number of miles he actually drives.