Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^absolutely. The cladding looks ridiculous in the closeup render/s. As you recede the curtain wall begins to look better, but then, the tower appears shoehorned into a relatively small downtown already slammed with too many fat towers. It has no observation floor at significant height - and the upper floors are closed to the public. i'm unsure about the base of the tower. A more significant (large) muilti-use athenaeum type of thing might be attempted at a new City Hall someday.

What i do like about it? That it's going 750'; adding some badly needed height.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Millenium Partners now practically owns the downtown skyline from the Common
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From DigitalSciGuy's twitter (with pics).

So after this gets built, Millenium will dominate the downtown skyline from the Charles/Common side even more. That's my biggest qualm with 111 Federal St. As in most things in life and society, a lack of diversity (even with good intentions) often has unintended, deleterious effects.

I guess we'll find out in 20-100 years.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I don't understand the argument that it is shoehorned in... Yes it is located on a somewhat small lot between other towers, but it isn't like other cities don't have towers built this densely. NYC has plenty of skyscrapers built right up next to each other this isn't some crazy plan. Shoehorned would be something like 111 W 57th street or something not this.

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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

odurandina said:
^^absolutely. The cladding looks ridiculous in the closeup render/s. As you recede the curtain wall begins to look better, but then, the tower appears shoehorned into a relatively small downtown already slammed with too many fat towers. It has no observation floor at significant height - and the upper floors are closed to the public. i'm unsure about the base of the tower. A more significant (large) muilti-use athenaeum type of thing might be attempted at a new City Hall someday.

What i do like about it? That it's going 750'; adding some badly needed height.
Click to expand...

The cladding looks good up close... We dont have another tower in the city with a facade this detailed. Its like a curtain that opens more towards the bottom of the tower. Each face is 3d and has a mixture of different types of glass. Then up top the curtain splits to create a crown. This tower looks very good and looks like it will look good at night too.

We get our new downtown tallest, with a crown, dynamic 3d facade, replace a falling down garage in the middle of downtown, by a powerhouse developer. Im not the biggest fan of the flat roof, but they made it a crown and it will look great. The building is also thin on 2 of the sides so from the south station area or north it will look really slender and tall. This is a huge win for the city.

Dont forget were getting spires at north station, something for 1 dalton at some point, sst, gov center with an incredible crown. Our skyline is going to be big leagues. Honestly after this building all I really care about is the back bay developments turning that part of the skyline into a density it rightfully should have. Along with pulling the skyline west too with the pierce, 2 charlesgate, and the pike parcel area with 1 dalton the skyline is going to be much more cohesive, of higher quality, denser, and much higher quality. We are in a time like no other in Boston history and were all along for the ride.

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115-Winthrop-Square-Financial-District-Downtown-Boston-Tower-Garage-Site-Millennium-Partners-Suffolk-Construction-Handel-Architects-Rendering.png
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Thanks. Something perhaps i didn't 'get' about the curtain wall before... The top render looks almost like a cartoon but the 'effect' is probably a distortion of the artist attempting to reflect the bright sun refracting through thin cloud cover.... In the last render, there's a noticable change to brownness. Could this dramatic change simply be due to the multi-faceted mirrored glass first reflecting the sky, and then our 60's/'70s office towers?? ...when the curtain wall is, in fact, lovely? ...Not trying to be negative, but our downtown is quite brown in the winter! :)
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Man, Stick's bottom picture will look so much better with SST balancing this off to the right. I'm sorry but 111 Fed is just plain FAT from this angle. We need SST to keep things in check. The Bulfinch Crossing towers way off to the left will help too.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

bigpicture7 said:
Man, Stick's bottom picture will look so much better with SST balancing this off to the right. I'm sorry but 111 Fed is just plain FAT from this angle. We need SST to keep things in check. The Bulfinch Crossing towers way off to the left will help too.
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Just think of how much the skyline will/could look come 2020. A nice modern shift.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

1 Brom may pull something off too, then we get govt center garage pulling the skyline north (with possibly the most iconic building the city has ever seen), widening it, capping it off with the hub on causeway, garden garage, avalon north station. After seeing that columbus center is back from the dead, the pike parcels look incredible, and the back bay station developments are going through, and dont forget about 40 trinity for those nights in the sky and were big leagues. In about 5 years this city is going to be major. Downtown has been LONG overdue for what is coming, and the back bay is way too small for how important it is to the city. Both these areas are getting MASSIVE improvements.

Then you toss in a majorly densified seaport, andrew square, dudley square, and even eventually the allston yards buildings its going to be night and day. Just sit back grab some popcorn and watch this all go down. Its going to be special.

Millennium tower alone has already pulled downtown together and VASTLY improved the much lacking downtown skyline. That is literally the 1st millimeter of the tip of the iceberg that is about to come.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

nicely done Stick!!

bigpicture7 said:
Man, Stick's bottom picture will look so much better with...
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i'm gonna let that render go. It's not how it really looks down there... i'm in awe of what 2020-2022.... it's like we're walking through a door. Not just all these big towers.... but everything happening in every neighborhood. There's a billion new angles to see - on every patch of ground literally every 3 months.

Walking by St. Petersburg on the Common with the dark night and MT soaring above.... the street alive... it looked good. We're starting to get new stuff that's helping me warm to the old stuff.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

stick n move said:
We are in a time like no other in Boston history and were all along for the ride.
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Stick -- that's about as succinctly put as possible -- this the time in Boston's development history -- that will be fondly referred to as "those were the days when...."

Enjoy it!!:D
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

odurandina said:
nicely done Stick!!



i'm gonna let that render go. It's not how it really looks down there... i'm in awe of what 2020-2022.... it's like we're walking through a door. Not just all these big towers.... but everything happening in every neighborhood. There's a billion new angles to see - on every patch of ground literally every 3 months.

Walking by St. Petersburg on the Common with the dark night and MT soaring above.... the street alive... it looked good. We're starting to get new stuff that's helping me warm to the old stuff.
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Exactly. You need boxes, plain materials, varying heights, varying styles/time periods for a good skyline. You need a supporting cast/background before you can let the foreground shine. Millennium tower made everything around it look good. Density and a good supporting cast will always win out once the new stuff comes over built overnight skylines. Our supporting cast is very good, I'm not going to name them all we know what we have. Now that were getting the "iconic", place-makers, everything is going to come full circle and its going to be incredible. Our waterfront location, with the river, brownstones, density, is honestly going to give us one of the better skylines in overall quality in America. ESPECIALLY if the harbor garage goes. The shot from the harbor is going to be the definition of iconic. The good thing too is everyone who lands at logan is going to see the city from its best angle. Its very good now from the east but once these are complete its going to be in another class. By that time it is gong to stretch all the way from TD garden to the cruise ship terminal with a crown right in the center of it all.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

stick n move said:
Exactly. You need boxes, plain materials, varying heights, varying styles/time periods for a good skyline. You need a supporting cast/background before you can let the foreground shine. Millennium tower made everything around it look good. Density and a good supporting cast will always win out once the new stuff comes over built overnight skylines. Our supporting cast is very good, I'm not going to name them all we know what we have. Now that were getting the "iconic", place-makers, everything is going to come full circle and its going to be incredible. Our waterfront location, with the river, brownstones, density, is honestly going to give us one of the better skylines in overall quality in America. ESPECIALLY if the harbor garage goes. The shot from the harbor is going to be the definition of iconic. The good thing too is everyone who lands at logan is going to see the city from its best angle. Its very good now from the east but once these are complete its going to be in another class. By that time it is gong to stretch all the way from TD garden to the cruise ship terminal with a crown right in the center of it all.
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Stick -- you are really writing the "Postcards Script" for the next couple of decades for the Visitor and Convention Bureau

However, I would take issue with your claim that best view is from the Harbor -- it has always been good ever since the days of Fitz Henry Lane
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Then it was the dome of the State House and the steeples of the Churches -- and it only got better with the Customs House Tower and on and on...

Despite all that -- Today the Best View is the sweeping panorama viewed from the edge of the Charles in front of MIT. On one end you have the iconic Longfellow Bridge with the dome of the State House gleaming above the sea of Beacon Hill's bricks with the downtown skyline in the background.

In the middle is the Esplanade with the Hatch Shell in the foreground, Back Bay in the middleground and the High Spine marching across the background.
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Finally way to right is a bit of BU's dorms and the Law School tower. Add in the new stuff and its going to take something really special such as a synergy between South Station and Winnie to make the Harbor View comparable.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Best is an opinion. You know what I meant. The harbor view will be very improved and visible to millions of people passing through logan.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

meddlepal, interesting that the Globe article doesn't mention the months when these shadows would be cast. Clearly it is an early morning shadow.

I did a quick calculation using an on-line shadow calculator.

http://www.suncalc.org/#/42.3525,-71.0376,9/2016.11.01/08:23/240

If a 240 meter tall building were there this morning, the shadow length at around an hour after sunrise would be over 1300 meters. That's why there is reference to shadow reaching the Public Garden.

If one recalls the project that cannot be discussed, the state decreed no new shadow on Long Wharf between November 1 and roughly March 1.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

"Who knows what evil lurks within the hearts of men? The Shadow knows."
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

meddlepal said:
I wouldn't hold your breath on this going anywhere: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/10/31/shadow/FcG7vgu2HbrjBdg18ay9XP/story.html

I'm pretty in agreement too with a lot of the concerns. This can't be a one-off and totally rewriting the law is going to be a hard sell.
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There is a lot of precedent in the 1990 law to allow for additional exceptions. Both the Midtown Cultural District and the South Station area are granted longer shadow periods at sunrise and sunset than the rest of downtown. Seems pretty unfair, and leveling the playing field could be a pretty solid legislative argument.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

So we lost the copley tower and now possibly this
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

That is the biggest NIMBY article I have ever seen. Sorry to contribute to the chorus of NIMBY bashes on this site but Tim Logan should move to Vermont if he's afraid of tall towers. No one will notice a small bit of shade on the Common at 6 am in June.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

tysmith95 said:
That is the biggest NIMBY article I have ever seen. Sorry to contribute to the chorus of NIMBY bashes on this site but Tim Logan should move to Vermont if he's afraid of tall towers. No one will notice a small bit of shade on the Common at 6 am in June.
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Sorry, but how is this the "biggest NIMBY article I have ever seen"? It's pretty much straight reporting: quotes, expository material, that's it. Your comment doesn't follow from the text at all.
 
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