Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[bigpicture7]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

All true, but it doesn't get us an "iconic tower", which this board really seems to pine for.

well, in spaces conducive to tall towers at least...

I think there are also many on this board who appreciate what GE is doing for that particular parcel (really expanding/enhancing a desolate area of the Channel with a potentially impactful channel-side campus+public realm).

But with regard to this discussion: it is indeed interesting that the motivators for corporations to build iconic tall towers may have ebbed in boston. SalesForce in SF, Devon in OKC, are the modern day corporate odes-to-self that we aren't seeing in boston these days...I wonder what the different factors are that sparked those towers elsewhere but not here?

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

well, in spaces conducive to tall towers at least...

I think there are also many on this board who appreciate what GE is doing for that particular parcel (really expanding/enhancing a desolate area of the Channel with a potentially impactful channel-side campus+public realm).

But with regard to this discussion: it is indeed interesting that the motivators for corporations to build iconic tall towers may have ebbed in boston. SalesForce in SF, Devon in OKC, are the modern day corporate odes-to-self that we aren't seeing in boston these days...I wonder what the different factors are that sparked those towers elsewhere but not here?

Bigpicture -- As has been pointed out in the article about the difficulty filling high office space in Boston -- this aspect of corporate culture -- the tall corporate tower with name on the top has been ebbing for quite a while

It's all about Brand Identification and Visibility -- if you ask 99.9% of the population what Salesforce is they will come up Blank

Do the same thing with GE and it will be the inverse about 99% will know GE -- so GE can make an iconic statement on edge of the Fort Point Chanel without needing to have a really tall building

Salesforce is trying to accomplish what GE accomplished at the turn of the previous century and a really tall building apparently is valuable to them -- sort of like TD Bank putting its name on Boston Garden

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ yes, I understand and agree about the distinction. And of the costly economics of building high vs ROI for an already-established brand. I am just curious as to why we are seeing this pan out differently in different cities. Is it just a coincidence that boston doesn't have (or draw) a corporate name needing/willing to do this? In other words are our factors different than theirs? I mean, even OKC (no offense) got a big corporate-named tower so we can't just say its the Silicon Valley hot streak.

 

[KentXie]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ yes, I understand and agree about the distinction. And of the costly economics of building high vs ROI for an already-established brand. I am just curious as to why we are seeing this pan out differently in different cities. Is it just a coincidence that boston doesn't have (or draw) a corporate name needing/willing to do this? In other words are our factors different than theirs? I mean, even OKC (no offense) got a big corporate-named tower so we can't just say its the Silicon Valley hot streak.

We did, we just happened to have gotten those towers in the 60s and 70s (a la John Hancock and Prudential). The most recent one is State Street in the early 2000s.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ yes, I understand and agree about the distinction. And of the costly economics of building high vs ROI for an already-established brand. I am just curious as to why we are seeing this pan out differently in different cities. Is it just a coincidence that boston doesn't have (or draw) a corporate name needing/willing to do this? In other words are our factors different than theirs? I mean, even OKC (no offense) got a big corporate-named tower so we can't just say its the Silicon Valley hot streak.

Bigpicture -- in fact the Salesforce Tower in SF is not Silicon Valley -- and even in SF its a class of one -- the exception are the "legendary ones" like the Transamerica Pyramid.

None of the true denizens of Silicon Valley [i.e. San Jose and surroundings] has any towers to their name -- they all go for the suburban or semi-suburban landscaped campus

Oklahoma City -- well that's an entirely different matter -- more like a Houston Wanna-be

 

[dotdude78]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ yes, I understand and agree about the distinction. And of the costly economics of building high vs ROI for an already-established brand. I am just curious as to why we are seeing this pan out differently in different cities. Is it just a coincidence that boston doesn't have (or draw) a corporate name needing/willing to do this? In other words are our factors different than theirs? I mean, even OKC (no offense) got a big corporate-named tower so we can't just say its the Silicon Valley hot streak.

Kinda sad that OKC has a tower taller than anything in Boston.

PS - that kinda looks like the old JH in the background...

 

[DZH22]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The most recent one is State Street in the early 2000s.

I'm pretty sure 1 Lincoln was actually built on spec. State Street didn't sign on until after.

SalesForce in SF, Devon in OKC, are the modern day corporate odes-to-self that we aren't seeing in boston these days...

And of course, don't forget Comcast and their 2 massive towers just a few hours South in Philadelphia.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

In before thread goes off the rails.

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

So things are perhaps different in Boston in our present era

(and yes, Whigh, I really meant the hot streak of the current tech bubble, not specifically Silicon Valley - by the way, that term is being used more and more to describe a type of firm rather than the specific region around SJ, not sayin i agree with it)

I suppose we should celebrate that we've had some "iconic" tower building bankrolled by companies in the past.

And I can accept SF tower as a one-off/outlier.

Comcast in Philly, on the other hand, now that doesn't fit Whigh's model: this is a company that everyone has heard of; they do not need to do this for advertising, at the high cost of building very tall in the middle of a dense east coast city (e.g., not a blank canvas like OKC). Hmmm.

But in Boston, maybe mixed-use is the future, as far as the eye can see.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Kinda sad that OKC has a tower taller than anything in Boston.

PS - that kinda looks like the old JH in the background...

DotDude --No its kinda sad that you are comparing OKC to anything connected with Boston -- even in the only Pro sport played in OKC -- there is no significant comparison with Boston's legendary franchise

To be a bit more serious -- OKC shares two items which link our two cities [answer below]

I'll bet most of the AB Forum-ites don't even know which sport OKC has a pro franchise let alone why other than the Oll Bizznnnz that we need to know about OKC []





Spoiler Alert



Both are State Capitals, County Seats, and largest city of the respective state
Both were the target of terrorist bombings


Its NBA Basketball -- team is called the Thunder

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

So things are perhaps different in Boston in our present era

(and yes, Whigh, I really meant the hot streak of the current tech bubble, not specifically Silicon Valley - by the way, that term is being used more and more to describe a type of firm rather than the specific region around SJ, not sayin i agree with it)

I suppose we should celebrate that we've had some "iconic" tower building bankrolled by companies in the past.

And I can accept SF tower as a one-off/outlier.

Comcast in Philly, on the other hand, now that doesn't fit Whigh's model: this is a company that everyone has heard of; they do not need to do this for advertising, at the high cost of building very tall in the middle of a dense east coast city (e.g., not a blank canvas like OKC). Hmmm.

But in Boston, maybe mixed-use is the future, as far as the eye can see.

BigPicture -- that seems to be the current trend

Regarding Comcast -- they still are aggrandizing and trying to become a more iconic global brand now that they no-longer are just a cable company

Comcast is a TV network which just broadcast the Olympics [NBC] and they are even a movie studio and theme park operator [Universal] -- but most people still think of them as a cable operator

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

But in Boston, maybe mixed-use is the future, as far as the eye can see.

Absolutely.

Optimizing our real estate estate to reach economic viability, max revenue, and extend the boom.

In before thread goes off the rails.

You mean like mentioning an anchor tenant at a certain parcel?

Spoiler Alert...

 

[dotdude78]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

DotDude --No its kinda sad that you are comparing OKC to anything connected with Bostonr

I'm not trying to compare Boston to OKC. They are incomparable. Which furthers my point that I think we should have one 800-900' tower.

I know a lot of people on here don't give a shit about height, but I do. Just one really tall iconic tower would shut me up forever.

Ok, rant over. Good day.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

You mean like mentioning an anchor tenant at a certain parcel?

No I mean like the second Devon Tower gets posted here it turns into a height matters vs our city is more important thread.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'm not trying to compare Boston to OKC. They are incomparable. Which furthers my point that I think we should have one 800-900' tower.

I know a lot of people on here don't give a shit about height, but I do. Just one really tall iconic tower would shut me up forever.

Ok, rant over. Good day.

DotDude -- I'm sure that some day some one will find a place and a way to finance a tower which will top the Hancock if not the antennaed height of the Pru

Personally, I'm thinking that to get away from the FAA issues -- go west and that would mean -- about where the toll booths are currently located in Alston or is that Brighton

There will be a core there at some time in the not too distant future and if Kendall gets an iconic Tower for the Volpe [MIT] -- Harvard will want one at least as tall for the West Station area -- the neo-pseudo-quasi-Kendall which they are hoping to build

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

No I mean like the second Devon Tower gets posted here it turns into a height matters vs our city is more important thread.

Driven by it 3 times this year. Just like that monstrosity in Dallas, it's a bit of a fatty. That height however, would be perfect for Boston.... for a tallest, and hopefully, end that conversation once and for all.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

i believe the BRA just acquired the Garage. They're also going to produce a public accounting of their expenses for reviewing the proposals and selecting the winner to develop the site... and costs to begin the process with Millenniumm Partners to bring the project to the starting point of design and construction permitting, and the amount ($$$) that will be remitted back to the City of Boston.

Kinda sad that OKC has a tower taller than anything in Boston.

PS - that kinda looks like the old JH in the background...

Non-union workers + no affordable.

Affordable? Hell i bought gas for $0.63 in the late '90s in oky at 7-Eleven.

And bars were still dollar beers until 10.

Everything's affordable in Oky.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Non-union workers + no affordable.

Affordable? Hell i bought gas for $0.63 in the late '90s in oky at 7-Eleven.

And bars were still dollar beers until 10.

Everything's affordable in Oky.

Odurandia -- and its as "up to date as it is in Kansas City" according to the song in what was the name of that musical -- oh yea "Oklahoma"

Particularly if you don't mind:
mega brush fires*1
freezing chill*2
earth quakes*3
and of course Tornados*4

However, the compensation is that there is not much chance of a "Hurricane Sandy" like storm surge due to Climate Change

OKlahoma ....you're OK


*1

Oklahoma Wildfire, Now Larger Than Washington D.C., Pushes Tired Firefighters to Their Brink
Published:
Apr 8 2016 12:15 PM EDT
By Sean Breslin
weather.com
00:0000:56
State of Emergency from Wildfires in Oklahoma
Meteorologist Domenica Davis talks about the ongoing fire threat in parts of the Midwest and why the weather isn't helping matters. ...

These large wildfires burning across Oklahoma have forced Gov. Mary Fallin to declare a state of emergency in 10 counties affected by the infernos, and the forecast for this weekend isn't favorable for fire crews.

"It's hard to find a day with relatively light winds in the Plains states. South winds may gust up to 20 mph Friday afternoon," said weather.com meteorologist Jon Erdman. "Unfortunately, while a slight chance of thunderstorms is in play Saturday, south winds may gust up to 40 mph, particularly in the afternoon. A better chance of rain is in the forecast Sunday night into early Monday."

*2

Oklahoma Colder than the South Pole Thursday Morning

February 10, 2011; 11:55 AM ET

After being buried with roughly 2 feet of snow Wednesday, outstandingly cold air pooled over parts of Oklahoma, Arkansas and neighboring states. Thursday morning was the coldest in recorded history for some areas.
At 7 a.m. CST, it was colder in northeastern Oklahoma than at the South Pole.
The Oklahoma Mesonet reported a low temperature of -31° F at Nowata, Okla. If this temperature is valid, it will be the new all-time record low for the state.
The previous all-time low temperature record for Oklahoma is -27° F.
In Bartlesville, Okla., a temperature of -28° F was recorded at the airport at 7:19 a.m. This temperature also beats the state record.
Elsewhere in the Bartlesville area, a temperature of -29° F was reported around 7 a.m.
As AccuWeather.com Meteorologist Eric Wanenchak pointed out, the temperature at the South Pole was -23° F at 7 a.m. CST Thursday morning. Therefore, parts of Oklahoma and Kansas were just as cold, if not colder.

*3

Earthquake Rattles Oklahoma; One Of Strongest Recorded In State
September 3, 20169:01 AM ET
BILL CHAPPELL

A map shows the recorded location of a strong earthquake that struck west of Tulsa Saturday morning.

USGS
An earthquake struck northern Oklahoma early Saturday morning, rattling houses and waking residents in the region around Pawnee, about 74 miles north of Oklahoma City. Preliminary measurements show the quake had a magnitude of 5.6 — believed to be one of the strongest in state history.

The quake was felt in five states, according to the U.S. Geological Survey: Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas and Texas. It struck just after 7 a.m. local time, at a depth of 6 kilometers (3.7 miles).

The epicenter was around 8 miles northwest of Pawnee, a town of less than 3,000 people. Shortly after the large quake hit, at least four additional temblors struck the same area, with the strongest having a magnitude of 3.6; all of them were shallower than the first quake.

According to the National Weather Service's Tulsa office, the earthquake ties the strongest quake in Oklahoma history at 5.6 magnitude. The previous record breaker hit on Nov. 5, 2011, the agency says.

*4

2 Oklahoma counties among 10 most tornado-ravaged in America
POSTED 7:27 PM, JUNE 13, 2016, BY NADIA JUDITH ENCHASSI AND TRIBUNE MEDIA WIRE, UPDATED AT 07:28PM, JUNE 13, 2016

Tornadoes are the second-deadliest weather hazard in the U.S. and they tear down billions of dollars worth of property every year. On average, tornadoes are responsible for 1,265 injuries and 110 fatalities annually.

Since tornado season peaks in early summer for some states, WeatherDB, a weather data site that’s part of Graphiq, found out which 10 U.S. counties experienced the most monetary damage caused by tornadoes over the last 20 years (January 1996 to January 2016). Data was collected from NOAA‘s Severe Weather Data Inventory (SWDI) and the total damage for each tornado was adjusted for inflation. The SWDI also includes data on the number of deaths and injuries that occurred in each tornado event. Counties that experienced extreme tornado damage from fewer than 10 tornadoes over the past 20 years were excluded from the list.

Not surprisingly, counties located in “Tornado Alley” appear on this list. However, southern states like Alabama and Mississippi also experience a high volume of severe tornadoes. One tornado was even responsible for over $2 billion worth of damage alone. The following 10 counties are hotbeds for tornado damage.
.....#7. Oklahoma County, Oklahoma

Total Damage: $887 million
Number of Tornadoes: 42
Total Deaths: 14
Total Injuries: 412
Worst Single Tornado Damage: $641 million
Worst Tornado Date: 5/3/1999

#1. Cleveland County, Oklahoma

Total Damage: $3 billion
Number of Tornadoes: 30
Total Deaths: 36
Total Injuries: 631
Worst Single Tornado Damage: $2.04 billion
Worst Tornado Date: 5/20/2013

 

[Cortes]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Has this thread gone so off the rails that we are talking about tornadoes in Oklahoma? Hey mods....

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

$152,800,000....

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/10/25/winthrop/i7FZH6glTvPtL8THQFgH9L/story.html