Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Brighton. i average 6 or 7 months/yr.

Odd. i've walked past it 100 times and if i ever really noticed it, it was forgotten.

If you're not looking for it as you pass on Washington St, it's like it's not even there.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

BeeLine said:
According to the BRA site Hayward Place is 390,705 sqft.
Don't forget it has only 3 sides and is hollow in the middle.
Click to expand...

OK, I guess that valet roundabout carves out a lot more space on the lot than I realized. Thanks for the correction! And, I didn't realize it was hollow in the middle as you describe...
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The site today



 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Has a start date for construction been established?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Mayor Walsh, TARE DOWN THIS GARAGE!!

Also can we change the name of this thread so that it no longer includes a reference to Trans National. Maybe new Millennium tower or Winthrop Square Tower.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

mass88 said:
Has a start date for construction been established?
Click to expand...

The developer was just selected. There is still the full design development, & approval phase to go through. Not to mention any legal hurdles that pop up.

Per their proposal, these are the projected milestone dates:

  • Project Commencement - 2016 July
  • Article 80/Permitting - 2016 July-December
  • GMP/Permit Documents - 2017 June
  • Garage Demolition - 2017 June
  • Building Permit - 2017 August
  • Construction Commencement - 2017 August
  • Foundations Complete - 2018 June
  • Top Out Structure - 2019 September
  • First Occupancy - 2020 August
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

bobthebuilder said:
The developer was just selected. There is still the full design development, & approval phase to go through. Not to mention any legal hurdles that pop up.

Per their proposal, these are the projected milestone dates:

  • Project Commencement - 2016 July
  • Article 80/Permitting - 2016 July-December
  • GMP/Permit Documents - 2017 June
  • Garage Demolition - 2017 June
  • Building Permit - 2017 August
  • Construction Commencement - 2017 August
  • Foundations Complete - 2018 June
  • Top Out Structure - 2019 September
  • First Occupancy - 2020 August
Click to expand...

BobtheBuilder -- it sounds as if we can expect a Big Crane :D sometime in the mid summer of 2018
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

tysmith95 said:
Mayor Walsh, TARE DOWN THIS GARAGE!!

Also can we change the name of this thread so that it no longer includes a reference to Trans National. Maybe new Millennium tower or Winthrop Square Tower.
Click to expand...

Tysmith -- Boston Globe's Robert Campbell called MT Millie
The guys who put Millennium Tower together are Boston developer Anthony Pangaro and architects Gary Handel and Blake Middleton of Handel Architects in New York. A couple of nearby buildings from the same team also have the word “millennium” in their names. It’s confusing and, well, pompous. The tower needs a nickname, so we’ll call this one “Millie.”
Click to expand...

So to differentiate it from MT and all the other Millennium buildings in Boston and to further take note of the historic Winthrop Square [as in the "City on a Hill"] -- we should call 115 Federal or whatever its official name is by the nickname Winnie ;)
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

It will probably end up being called "the residences at winthrop" or some shit.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Winnie, I love it!

Winnie the tower!
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

odurandina said:
Another truly irresponsible Globe hit piece regarding 111 Fed....

And my fair, truthful and accurate indictment of the Globe below;

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...-questioned/CwlASqhGEGtqzLVhRCW5MP/story.html
Click to expand...

I don't get it - if the highest appraisal was $148 million, and Millennium bid $151 million (so over the actual appraised value), doesn't that mean the BRA's process... well, kind of worked? I agree with the sentiment that the BRA needs to be trusted and is historically pretty shady, but, I don't get the example of this vacant garage to make the point. This isn't like an antique car show - developers were not going to go much of the appraised value (if it was correct) as it would lead to loss in money to put into the tower itself - they are in the business of making money, not over bidding on things as a trophy. Plus, they all, I am sure, did their own internal appraisals of how much they thought the land was worth (Trinity said as much in the article). In the end, the process lead to a bid higher than the appraised value, with the article complaining that because of the process we didn't get enough bids over the appraised value?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Indeed, empty speculation.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

bakgwailo said:
I don't get it - if the highest appraisal was $148 million, and Millennium bid $151 million (so over the actual appraised value), doesn't that mean the BRA's process... well, kind of worked? I agree with the sentiment that the BRA needs to be trusted and is historically pretty shady, but, I don't get the example of this vacant garage to make the point. This isn't like an antique car show - developers were not going to go much of the appraised value (if it was correct) as it would lead to loss in money to put into the tower itself - they are in the business of making money, not over bidding on things as a trophy. Plus, they all, I am sure, did their own internal appraisals of how much they thought the land was worth (Trinity said as much in the article). In the end, the process lead to a bid higher than the appraised value, with the article complaining that because of the process we didn't get enough bids over the appraised value?
Click to expand...

The Globe's argument is that if they'd published the $148M appraisal and implied that it was the lowest they'd accept, the price might have gone much higher. The article is also somewhat complicated by the bitterness of the losing developers, some of whom have a huffing "well, if we'd known it was all about the money..." take on the whole thing that doesn't necessarily prove they would have bid $200M.

Frankly, I suspect that if they'd put out $148M, they'd have received a bunch of $148M bids, the same way that all the proposals were 725', but I don't think there's any way to know what would happen in any hypothetical situation. The Globe is demanding that the BRA prove a negative - that there's no possible way they could have made more - despite them beating their appraisal.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I don't really get it either... That being said, the “realistically, probably more in the $40 million range” comment does seem stupid and counterproductive. That only solidifies my belief that many public agency figures don't understand the value of their own assets.

Releasing the details of the appraisals could have gone either way, encouraging firms to bid higher OR lower, depending on how the appraisals compared to the bidders own internal valuations. Generally, a competitive bid process is MUCH more likely to result in a fair price than an appraisal. Six firms bid, and the one with the highest offer was awarded the parcel. If the five losing firms are upset about this, then they should have bid higher. And if the losing firms would have been swayed by a $148 million evaluation and believed that it was fair, had they heard about it, then why did they only bid $75m?

Also, the Globe piece raises concerns that the site was undervalued AND that non-monetary aspects of the bids were undervalued. These arguments don't seem to be compatible with one another. Either the site was sold for too little or too much money was demanded; it can't go both ways.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

bakgwailo said:
I don't get it - if the highest appraisal was $148 million, and Millennium bid $151 million (so over the actual appraised value), doesn't that mean the BRA's process... well, kind of worked? I agree with the sentiment that the BRA needs to be trusted and is historically pretty shady, but, I don't get the example of this vacant garage to make the point. This isn't like an antique car show - developers were not going to go much of the appraised value (if it was correct) as it would lead to loss in money to put into the tower itself - they are in the business of making money, not over bidding on things as a trophy. Plus, they all, I am sure, did their own internal appraisals of how much they thought the land was worth (Trinity said as much in the article). In the end, the process lead to a bid higher than the appraised value, with the article complaining that because of the process we didn't get enough bids over the appraised value?
Click to expand...

The BRA admits that in an otherwise equal competition, it would favor MP, -- because MP bailed out the city after Vornado's woe-begotten attempt on Filene's..

Thus a suspicion that there were sotto voce hints to MP that if MP came in with a bid of around $150 million, it would capture the prize. And, in a much more public way, the BRA practically invited the other teams to come-in with lower bid amounts, as it only publicly released what ultimately were low-ball estimates on how much the property was worth.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

stellarfun said:
The BRA admits that in an otherwise equal competition, it would favor MP, -- because MP bailed out the city after Vornado's woe-begotten attempt on Filene's..

Thus a suspicion that there were sotto voce hints to MP that if MP came in with a bid of around $150 million, it would capture the prize. And, in a much more public way, the BRA practically invited the other teams to come-in with lower bid amounts, as it only publicly released what ultimately were low-ball estimates on how much the property was worth.
Click to expand...

If MP were the favorite in "an otherwise equal competition" then they could have won with a <$100 million bid. But they bid more than $150. How does this imply impropriety, exactly?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'm the first person to criticize and jump all over injustice from the BRA.

I think the BRA did the right thing on this sale. The Developer needs sometype of incentive to develop this garage. If anything I think the developer could have over paid.

Globe has no creditability on this. Really hard to give a accurate valuation on a broken garage that does not even generate revenue now.

Honestly if they sold the garage for 50 or 75 Million I'm not sure I would have said anything.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

One should always be wary about comments about valuation from a bankrupt entity

We shouldn't forget that quite recently the NY Times which had $Bs invested sold the Globe to John Henry for essentially the value of the land under its old HQ. And now he's sold that land the rest is worth as they say a $1 and other considerations such as giving John Henry's wife something to do.

The rest is just sour grapes from the other developers with the Globe offering them a soapbox to stand upon and holler
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I work across the street from the garage. I just walked by for the millionth time.

Let's just be glad it got approved. Ok?
 
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