Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[Money]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

20161022_Parents_DSCF1043.jpg by David Anhalt, on Flickr

Is it just me or is that tower between the two under construction leaning?

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

...If even they can do it, we can do it...

^ One of them looks a lil' crooked (sorry, couldn't resist!)

In seriousness, I know the height commentary is polarizing here on AB. I wish it weren't. There is a middle ground.

I am all about preserving boston's beautiful past. But as of the past couple of years, I teach/work with young engineering students here in boston and I can't help but hear what they say. A lot of them think boston is boring, stagnant, low-energy, and not on the cutting edge (right, wrong, whatever...these kids are 20).

There's a way for us to be cutting edge, AND to preserve everything that's wonderful about boston's past, and I'm not sure we've found that yet.

EDIT: Damn, money, you beat me to it.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The lean would appear to be visible - except that it's exaggerated by Salesforce Tower's curved wall.

Don't they have almost no more land zoned as yet, for skyscrapers?

 

[Equilibria]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

San Francisco has an anti-shadow ordinance with much greater effect on buildings proximate to parks than anything developers in Boston have to deal with. Enacted by the voters in the 1980s, I believe its Proposition K. Its good that Massachusetts doesn't govern itself by ballot initiative.

Yeah... SF is about the worst possible example you could pick. It's the most hostile building environment of any US city. The tall buildings are going up there because (stop me if you've heard this one) their airport isn't right next to Downtown.

 

[Money]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The lean would appear to be visible - except that it's exaggerated by Salesforce Tower's curved wall.

I hope I'm misinterpreting your response and it is, in fact, an attempt at humor.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

of course. Yet shouldn't the closest point of Millennium be visiable as a few inches closer to Salesforce than it in fact, should be?

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

OK, I cannot be sure, but I thought that the 90 minute duration happened at lower sun angle.

The long extensions happen at the higher sun angle summer days, but for shorter duration (the sun rapidly rises out of the angle to reach the Common, Public Garden, etc.)

So I believe that the protesters are actually conflating two issues. Reach and duration, which do not happen together, IMHO.

Jeff Downtown -- Please -- try this simple experiment

Set up a stick [the tower] take a flashlight [the sun] move it around and see how long the shadow is at various angles

Hint the length of the shaddow increases as you get lower in angle of illumination -- when you are overhead -- there is no shaddow

In the winter [on the solstice at local noon] the sun is never more than 24.25 degrees [11:43 EST] above the horizon this is equivalent in angle to the summer solstice at 6:34 AM EST or 7:34 AM EDST

At local noon [12:46:08 EDST] on that date the sum will be 71.08 above the horizon and the shaddow will be much shorter

How much shorter -- well take a 750 ft tower and a sun at infinity and a flat earth's surface [a minor simplification] anyone whoever took high school Trig can calculate the lengths of the two shadows

1675.07 ft
257.07 ft

Obviously this calculation can be preformed for any day of the year and as early as you want after sunrise -- however, since there a lots of things between the tower and the sun and the Common the really early morning extremely low sun angles are irrelevant

But just for laughs at 7:34 this morning the sun was 1.8 degrees in elevation and the same tower would cast a shaddow that was 23865.3869 feet long

Now the other variable besides the length of the shaddow is its angle since if it falls on the ocean the common is not effected. Here the time of the year is critical since the same elevation angle gives rise to an equal length shaddow but it comes from very different directions depending on the season

Take again the winter solstice at noon and the early morning on the bright summer day in late June the elevation angle is 24 degrees and the length of the shaddow is 1675 ft

But in winter at local noon the sun is 180 degrees from North [clockwise where due south is 180] -- note this is 12:00 noon EST which in an earlier post I noted is not really local noon

at the Summer Solstice at 7:34 EDST in the morning the sun is shining from 79.54 degrees [essentially east]

You can play with these numbers for your self and with a map showing true north you can even plot the shadows

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/azel.html

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ One of them looks a lil' crooked (sorry, couldn't resist!)

In seriousness, I know the height commentary is polarizing here on AB. I wish it weren't. There is a middle ground.

I am all about preserving boston's beautiful past. But as of the past couple of years, I teach/work with young engineering students here in boston and I can't help but hear what they say. A lot of them think boston is boring, stagnant, low-energy, and not on the cutting edge (right, wrong, whatever...these kids are 20).

There's a way for us to be cutting edge, AND to preserve everything that's wonderful about boston's past, and I'm not sure we've found that yet.

EDIT: Damn, money, you beat me to it.

BigPicture -- its not about height or even pickleness -- its about innovation

consider the following renders of what will soon grace Boston -- hardly dull and boring

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^I may be in the minority but I love that design for GE's headquarters. Boston would be boring if all new buildings were glass boxes or precast crap.

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

BigPicture -- its not about height or even pickleness -- its about innovation

consider the following renders of what will soon grace Boston -- hardly dull and boring

Whigh, I agree and I too (minority or otherwise) am a fan of this whole development.

However, as I mentioned, working with 20-yr-old soon-to-be engineering grads: they don't always do their homework. Some of them will see this, others won't. In time our city may have more of an "aura" of innovation that reaches them, but right now it's not reaching many of them (despite the fact that we know Boston is one of the more innovative places in our nation).

Yes, these kids do need to do their homework...but sometimes I also wish Boston called out to them. Just a smidge more splash in the skyline is all I'm asking for.

 

[nm88]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Count me in too.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Whigh, I agree and I too (minority or otherwise) am a fan of this whole development.

However, as I mentioned, working with 20-yr-old soon-to-be engineering grads: they don't always do their homework. Some of them will see this, others won't. In time our city may have more of an "aura" of innovation that reaches them, but right now it's not reaching many of them (despite the fact that we know Boston is one of the more innovative places in our nation).

Yes, these kids do need to do their homework...but sometimes I also wish Boston called out to them. Just a smidge more splash in the skyline is all I'm asking for.

BigPicture -- take them on a field trip sometime to:
the Seaport / Innovation / GE- Keiretsu District
Kendall
Longwood Medical
New Balance

Then ask them to find on the web an equivalent amount of innovation anywhere

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^I may be in the minority but I love that design for GE's headquarters. Boston would be boring if all new buildings were glass boxes or precast crap.

--Not me---I don't like this design in this area.
Looks like an Air-conditioner on steroids.

One thing is for sure---These major corporations are hunkering down in Boston for GOOD.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

So with talks that Salesforce will inevitably end up here at some point, and BOFA is always lingering around the corner, we may become an absolute powerhouse of a city economically as well as educationally. We've always had medicine and education, tech recently, but imagine if we become one of the heavy hitters of finance, production headquarters ie:reebok announcing they're also moving here too.

 

[FK4]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^Bigpicture, I don't think the problem is as much with architecture as it is with underlying culture, which is the wellspring from which comes all the stodginess, which may (depending on your opinion) include the architecture. Personally, I have a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings for the puritanism of Boston - I do think in many ways it makes it a less shallow place as it avoids valuing flash and gaudiness - but at that the same time, growing up here and now being in my early 30s it still is frustrating how resistant the city is to change. But I think a lot of the arguments, both on here and everywhere else in the media, often miss the point in conflating superficial improvements with meaningful ones: I would prefer more daring architecture here and there, irrespective of height. And rather than fighting for bars to be open later (which I do support), let's start with asking why it's impossible to find a restaurant open at midnight to serve dinner? Or why it's even more impossible just to find a store open for a pack of gum at 3AM? I think that those things would do much more to breathe a sense of freshness that would be sensed by our young transplants here, far more than just having a few more tall buildings + clubs open til 4.

 

[CSTH]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

, but imagine if we become one of the heavy hitters of finance, production headquarters ie:reebok announcing they're also moving here too.

I'm with you but just as a point of order, Reebok is moving from ... Canton, and we've been in the shoe business for a century.

But yeah go Boston

 

[FortPointGuy]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Arguably already the second most important financial city in the country.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Its just great to see the economy diversifying and the city really becoming a place that big companies really want to be.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Reebock specifically said that they would move into an already existing office building rather than building one themselves. I think it would be cool if they brought their 700 employees to the Hancock tower and negotiated a naming deal to change the name to Reebok tower (the chance of that happening is low).

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Damn I was kind of hoping they would build a less cruise ship-ey HQ in the seaport by GE or somewhere else with a good chunk of land.