World-class Boston

[czsz]

LA...intellectual? I think San Francisco and Chicago stand a better chance of competing with New York...although they're both distant seconds.

Back in college I took a class in American Intellectual History in which it was definitively asserted that Boston lost its place to New York around the turn of the century. One of the major losses has been in the media and the publishing industry. With the move of The Atlantic and the demise of the Christian Science Monitor, the last vestiges of Boston as a national media center are fading.

Anyway, people should read the Metaphysical Club if they want to get high off some serious postbellum Boston boosterage.

Seconded. For lighter fare (with a more Dan Brown flavor, admittedly) The Dante Club might be the trick.

 

[kennedy]

Is 'intellectual center' really determined by 6th grade reading level newspapers, and massive financial institutions? They are the industries that sustain America. Boston seems more like the home of innovation, along with SF/Silicon Valley. The research institutions, the hospitals, the biotech firms. All those who run the newspapers and financial institutions? Well, they probably came from Boston.

I just watched a Science Channel program on the Six Degrees of Separation theory, basically summing up that everything and everyone in nature is connected by a network, organized through hubs (think shipping, airports, or power plants on the grid). Boston is certainly the intellectual and innovation 'hub' of America, and in some part, the world.

 

[ablarc]

^^ I wanted to be morally outraged by that...

...but quietly realized it may be sadly true.

Movies, TV, music and the Internet are the media that shape culture these days; print gets more marginalized by the day.

 

[FrankG]

Boston seems more like the home of innovation, along with SF/Silicon Valley. The research institutions, the hospitals, the biotech firms.

Recently there was a statistic in The Economist that 1/3rd of all venture capital funding in the US goes to two places - Silicon Valley, and Boston.

 

[czsz]

Unfortunately, I get the sense that Boston startups either get snapped up more quickly than their Silicon Valley counterparts or else move away. 128 was regarded as almost on par as a centre of technological innovation 15 years ago, when DEC and Lotus were still independent corporations with local HQs; those comparisons are less frequent today.

 

[kennedy]

What about Genzyme? BOSE is still in the area. And you are completely forgetting the biggest local innovation companies-Harvard, MIT, and Tufts. If world-class means best in the world, then surely Boston is at the top of the class for education/research institutions. We're well on our way to being the the top of the class in biotech, as well as various other industries.

 

[Jane Jetson]

Boston peaked about 1915. Back then, it was a world class city and could thumb its nose at everybody else. It has not kept pace with other urban areas, including those which saw destruction in WWII.

Most of the innovation being mentioned is coming - either directly or indirectly - from MIT. Is MIT a world class institution? Definitely. But that doesn't make the whole place world class. Look at art, look at design, look at industry, look at theater, look at innovation in transportation, urban planning - am I missing something?

Education gives it a niche, but that's about it.

 

[czsz]

Boston peaked about 1915

Probably earlier - maybe around the Great Fire or so. By 1915 New York was already contemplating skyscrapers like the Woolworth, basking in the glow of a flourishing magazine scene, cradling the creme de la creme of American bohemia in the Village, and welcoming most of the country's immigrants through Ellis Island.

By that point, Boston was considered anachronistically Puritan. The Brahmins composed a formidable elite who were in the process of "finishing" Boston with the last touches of what would become the city center - the Emerald Necklace, the MFA, Gardner's house, etc. The city's old money watched most of its dynamism slip away to New York, at which it sneered for concerning itself with the production of wealth, rather than the enjoyment of it. Boston was still the Athens of America, but more like Athens in the period when it was ruled by Rome.

Its most prominent politician was obstructionist, nativist conservative Henry Cabot Lodge. Boston wanted nothing more than for the world to stay the same, because it was pretty comfortable - and had no ideas left about how to change it.

It woke up again, to some extent, in the 60s and 70s, and then enjoyed a bit of a boom the fruits of which we're still grazing upon today. But the first half of the 20th century were crucial years when the country, for the most part, grew significantly - while Boston was asleep.

 

[kennedy]

...Its most prominent politician was obstructionist, nativist conservative Henry Cabot Lodge. Boston wanted nothing more than for the world to stay the same, because it was pretty comfortable - and had no ideas left about how to change it.

It woke up again, to some extent, in the 60s and 70s, and then enjoyed a bit of a boom the fruits of which we're still grazing upon today. But the first half of the 20th century were crucial years when the country, for the most part, grew significantly - while Boston was asleep.

Yet look how much better than most of the country Boston is. Just to prove how strong Boston was, and can be, look at all of the challenges, and deficiencies over the 20th century that it's faced. While other cities proliferated, Boston was apparently stagnant. Yet still, today, it is considered a world-class city, certainly one of the best in the country.

...Most of the innovation being mentioned is coming - either directly or indirectly - from MIT. Is MIT a world class institution? Definitely. But that doesn't make the whole place world class. Look at art, look at design, look at industry, look at theater, look at innovation in transportation, urban planning - am I missing something?

Education gives it a niche, but that's about it.

I think you just don't like Harvard. The research they do is certainly different, but the innovation is certainly equal. You mentioned theater. We spent at least a page describing the merits of the performing arts in Boston. One of our universities is largely dedicated to the performing arts and media-Boston innovates, New York sustains. There are plenty of examples of this, throughout the city. Is the city as good as it can be? No. But is it as bad as you make it seem? No. There's room for improvement, but Boston is certainly in a better position than all but a select few cities in America (SF, NYC, Chicago, LA, and maybe Seattle).

 

[czsz]

I thought we were discussing world-classness, not "better than a select few cities in America".

And Harvard does not a world-class city make, by itself, otherwise we'd be heaping similar praise on Ann Arbor or Leiden.

One of our universities is largely dedicated to the performing arts and media-Boston innovates, New York sustains.

Huh? If it's Emerson vs. NYU, FIT, SVA, Parsons, Pratt, et al, I'm pretty sure which city is "more innovative in performing arts and media", if that means pumping out arts degrees...

 

[Ron Newman]

If you're going to put the likes of FIT on New York's side of the balance, you need to include Mass Art, MFA School, Berklee, Boston Conservatory, and New England Conservatory on Boston's side.

 

[statler]

Probably earlier - maybe around the Great Fire or so. By 1915 New York was already contemplating skyscrapers like the Woolworth, basking in the glow of a flourishing magazine scene, cradling the creme de la creme of American bohemia in the Village, and welcoming most of the country's immigrants through Ellis Island.

By that point, Boston was considered anachronistically Puritan. The Brahmins composed a formidable elite who were in the process of "finishing" Boston with the last touches of what would become the city center - the Emerald Necklace, the MFA, Gardner's house, etc. The city's old money watched most of its dynamism slip away to New York, at which it sneered for concerning itself with the production of wealth, rather than the enjoyment of it. Boston was still the Athens of America, but more like Athens in the period when it was ruled by Rome.

Its most prominent politician was obstructionist, nativist conservative Henry Cabot Lodge. Boston wanted nothing more than for the world to stay the same, because it was pretty comfortable - and had no ideas left about how to change it.

It woke up again, to some extent, in the 60s and 70s, and then enjoyed a bit of a boom the fruits of which we're still grazing upon today. But the first half of the 20th century were crucial years when the country, for the most part, grew significantly - while Boston was asleep.

Just wanted to quote this. For a great read that more or less confirms what czsz is saying I recommend Invented Cities: The Creation of Landscape in Nineteenth-Century New York and Boston by Mona Domosh.
It basically spells out how and why the two cities which were more or less equals up until the turn of the 19th century took completely different paths in city building.

 

[ablarc]

If you're going to put the likes of FIT on New York's side of the balance, you need to include Mass Art, MFA School, Berklee, Boston Conservatory, and New England Conservatory on Boston's side.

Hope this thread doesn't turn into another city vs. city pissing contest.

 

[czsz]

It shouldn't. These lists show the extent to which these cities are still apples and oranges - Boston's strength is clearly music (and I was wrong to forget about the institutions Ron listed), New York's applied arts. I think there's a big case to be made, though, that many of Boston's arts graduates head south (or west) after graduation, whereas a higher percentage of New York-educated artists stick around.

 

[ablarc]

Somebody finally straggled in with a vote for Durgin-Park. That leaves just Paul Revere's house. Don't he get no respect?

 

[kennedy]

What is it best in it's class for? Historical buildings? I'd say the Acropolis, the Alhambra, or an old eastern temple would surely be more "world-class" than Paul's house. Plus, he was really only relevant to American (and I guess British) history.

 

[kennedy]

If you're going to put the likes of FIT on New York's side of the balance, you need to include Mass Art, MFA School, Berklee, Boston Conservatory, and New England Conservatory on Boston's side.

Exactly.

NYC probably has a stronger group of arts schools, but our universities total absolutely trump theirs.

Columbia vs. Harvard, MIT, Tufts point: Boston
NYU vs. BU, BC, NU point: Boston
Parsons, Pratt, FIT, SVA, Cooper, etc. vs. Emerson, MassArt, MFA, etc. point: NYC

But universities aren't all that make a city world class, just one of the parts that make Boston world class.

 

[ablarc]

What is it best in it's class for?

Stealth world-class; small, atmospheric places hidden away for cognoscenti.

Dumbarton Oaks' Pre-Columbian Pavilion in Washington is another example (belongs to Harvard).

Frick Collection, Sainte Chapelle, Musee Rodin...

Uh...they're all more world-class than the Revere House, huh? :red face:

 

[Jane Jetson]

Just wanted to quote this. For a great read that more or less confirms what czsz is saying I recommend Invented Cities: The Creation of Landscape in Nineteenth-Century New York and Boston by Mona Domosh.
It basically spells out how and why the two cities which were more or less equals up until the turn of the 19th century took completely different paths in city building.

Thanks, Statler - this book looks fascinating - I will check it out.


As for the great school debate, unless we can get the best and the brightest who attend these schools to stay after graduation, it's almost irrelevant that these schools are even here.

With a serious attitude adjustment and a lot of new faces, maybe Boston could get on track to being world-class in about 25 years. Otherwise, we'll end up like Schenectady.

 

[ablarc]

...it's almost irrelevant that these schools are even here.

With a serious attitude adjustment and a lot of new faces, maybe Boston could get on track to being world-class in about 25 years. Otherwise, we'll end up like Schenectady.

A hopeful assessment.