Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

JetBlue doesn't have a plane in their current fleet that has the range for deep South America flights. You won't see them launching Ft. Lauderdale-Rio de Janiero, Buenos Aires, Santiago, or Sao Paulo any time soon.

It's interesting that parts of Northern South America is closer to Boston than San Francisco.
 
Jet Blue in mexico city would be wonderful for a family member of mine who does boston-mexico city like 10 times a year
 
jass said:
Jet Blue in mexico city would be wonderful for a family member of mine who does boston-mexico city like 10 times a year
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It would be nice to see them expand, but they would probably not run the flight from Boston. Boston has a tough history of non-stop flights to Mexico City. Aero Mexico has had problems in the past running the route.
 
mass88 said:
JetBlue doesn't have a plane in their current fleet that has the range for deep South America flights. You won't see them launching Ft. Lauderdale-Rio de Janiero, Buenos Aires, Santiago, or Sao Paulo any time soon.

It's interesting that parts of Northern South America is closer to Boston than San Francisco.
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All of South America is closer to Boston than San Fran.


It would be nice to see them expand, but they would probably not run the flight from Boston. Boston has a tough history of non-stop flights to Mexico City. Aero Mexico has had problems in the past running the route.
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If they start Mexico City there's a 90% chance its served by Fort Lauderdale and 10% chance by Orlando.

I think they could start Orlando fairly quickly if they wanted to since only Aeromexico serves it.
 
adamh8297 said:
All of South America is closer to Boston than San Fran.
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Care to revise that? While true that all of *Central* America is closer to BOS than SFO, only the northernmost tip of South America is. Please refer back to my earlier link for a handy depiction of BOS with a 2600 to 2700 mile great circle radius drawn around it:
2700mi gets you transcon anywhere in the US from BOS, gets you as far as Iceland going east, and as far as Colombia going south (but no farther)

Mexico City has the problem that it is hot & high. Jets produce less thrust in either hot or high altitude conditions (and MEX has both), leading to either big weight penalties or big range penalties--either of which is bad for flight economics (and is part of the reason why Houston and Panama City--both at sea level--work better as a Mexico/CentAmerica hub than Mexico City ever will).

Back to JetBlue, I'm sure they'd go everywhere across that Lima-Bogata-Caracas-Guyanas arc from FLL if they could get the rights to. Basically, take every city on the American Airlines map from MIA and do every city within range of FLL on an A320 (which is an arc from Lima to perhaps Belem in Brazil (at the mouth of the Amazon)

Here's AA's Map. JetBlue A320s probably have the range to do anything north of the line you'd draw between the words "Lima-BRAZIL-Belem" on AA's route map:
American_Airlines_south_america.gif

The "sobering" thing about AA's map is what it means for Boston: if AA has chosen not to serve the "northern tier" of South America (except Caracas) from even JFK, it sort of says that JetBlue will likely concentrate its LatAm service at FLL rather than "doubling up" and offering services from JFK or BOS to the area. So BOS will have to settle for its nonstop flight to Panama City...and otherwise expect to be connecting at PTY, IAH, (HOU, when it gets international gates), MIA or FLL in order to get to Carib/CentAm/SoAm destinations.
 
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^^Well as long as we're talking Fort Lauderdale (an airport I've flown into and out of well over 100 times in my life), airlines won't drastically expand service there until the airport completes its south runway expansion in a couple years. Once that runway is complete, the airport will be able to accommodate additional gate construction at its terminals. Terminal 4 (the International terminal) will be first to expand, but it is terminal 3 (jetBlue's terminal) that stands to benefit the most in the long term. There are 20-year plans to expand that terminal by up to more than 30 gates.

If you think air travel between NYC and SoFlo or even BOS and SoFlo is substantial now, imagine how crazy travel will be between these regions down the road.
 
Why has Fort Lauderdale become such a heavy-duty transfer point for flights to Latin America? Is MIA at capacity?
 
czsz said:
Why has Fort Lauderdale become such a heavy-duty transfer point for flights to Latin America? Is MIA at capacity?
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FLL still remains a largely domestic gateway to South Florida. The international capacity Spirit and JetBlue have added to Latin America from there is still a pittance compared to the juggernaut that is AA at MIA.

For awhile, though, I believe FLL was pretty underutilized while MIA had gate availability issues and a notorious reputation for delays. From what I understand, that trend has been reversing with the influx of capacity at FLL and the new terminal space that has opened up at MIA.
 
omaja said:
FLL still remains a largely domestic gateway to South Florida. The international capacity Spirit and JetBlue have added to Latin America from there is still a pittance compared to the juggernaut that is AA at MIA.

For awhile, though, I believe FLL was pretty underutilized while MIA had gate availability issues and a notorious reputation for delays. From what I understand, that trend has been reversing with the influx of capacity at FLL and the new terminal space that has opened up at MIA.
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Landing fees are also cheaper at FLL which tends to be the preference for Spirit, Southwest, and JetBlue plus various charter airlines such as AirTransat.

From what I've read in other places FLL customs is fairly hectic and gets swamped from the international flight additions in the last five years
 
czsz said:
Why has Fort Lauderdale become such a heavy-duty transfer point for flights to Latin America? Is MIA at capacity?
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Its partly just competitively easier to build a hub at FLL--with the lower fees, local support, and slight geographic/competitive isolation-- instead of going toe-to-toe with AA at MIA where AA has everything stacked in its favor.

MIA=ORD=IAH=SFO=IAD, while FLL=MDW=HOU=OAK=BWI.
 
FLL is predominantly domestic - it is No. 14 in the country for domestic passenger flows, but No. 21 for overall passengers, suggesting heavy lean toward domestic passengers:

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/04/how-fll-will-spend-650-million-to.html?page=2

Re. international connections, the biggest foreign destination (by far) is Canada - something like 5 Canadian airlines fly to FLL. Europe is a secondary destination (Condor flies from Germany, Norwegian Air launching service to a number of Scandinavian cities this year).

Latin America is pretty tertiary - the number of people with money to fly to FLL is obviously much, much smaller vs. Europe + Canada. Couple that with the fact the main draw to FLL - beaches + cruises - is a bit of a moot point for people living in tropical climes.
 
itchy said:
Re. international connections, the biggest foreign destination (by far) is Canada - something like 5 Canadian airlines fly to FLL. Europe is a secondary destination (Condor flies from Germany, Norwegian Air launching service to a number of Scandinavian cities this year).

Latin America is pretty tertiary - the number of people with money to fly to FLL is obviously much, much smaller vs. Europe + Canada. Couple that with the fact the main draw to FLL - beaches + cruises - is a bit of a moot point for people living in tropical climes.
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I struggle to believe FLL-Europe or FLL-Canada could be larger than FLL-Latin America. Condor has seasonal FLL-FRA and I'm sure Norweigan's new services will be very seasonal as well (reduced or suspended service in the off-season). Air Transat, Canjet, and Sunwing are all seasonal, while there are only a handful of daily trips on Air Canada and West Jet year-round.

Meanwhile, JetBlue and Spirit have dozens of daily A319-A320s heading south to markets like Kingston, Medellin, Santo Domingo, Port-au-Prince, Bogota, and so on. Owing to South Florida's de facto status as the hub for US-Latin American commerce, there's a massive amount of traffic heading to and from FLL that is primarily visiting friends and relatives (VFR) or business. All of that has to trump the primarily touristic inbound traffic from Canada and Europe.
 
itchy said:
FLL is predominantly domestic - it is No. 14 in the country for domestic passenger flows, but No. 21 for overall passengers, suggesting heavy lean toward domestic passengers:

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/04/how-fll-will-spend-650-million-to.html?page=2

Re. international connections, the biggest foreign destination (by far) is Canada - something like 5 Canadian airlines fly to FLL. Europe is a secondary destination (Condor flies from Germany, Norwegian Air launching service to a number of Scandinavian cities this year).

Latin America is pretty tertiary - the number of people with money to fly to FLL is obviously much, much smaller vs. Europe + Canada. Couple that with the fact the main draw to FLL - beaches + cruises - is a bit of a moot point for people living in tropical climes.
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How is Europe a secondary destination when there is currently only seasonal flights to FRA and there are over 20 destinations to Latin America and the Caribbean? Big Colombian, Jamaican, and Bahamian populations in Broward County and they are not all poor.
 
British Airways has released its winter schedule and Boston-London LHR will be at 24 weekly flights. 3 dailies, 2 of which will be 744s, and 1 772. The addition 3 weekly frequencies will be operated by a 772.

Air France will be sending a 4 class 772 as the second daily frequency for the summer, which will run from June 3 through Sep 29.

JAL will resume their daily flights to Tokyo Narita on the 788 starting on 6/1. They have been running 4 weekly 772 flights.

Also there is a nice colorful add for Copa's new Panama City service at the Charles/MGH stop.
 
mass88 said:
British Airways has released its winter schedule and Boston-London LHR will be at 24 weekly flights. 3 dailies, 2 of which will be 744s, and 1 772. The addition 3 weekly frequencies will be operated by a 772.

Air France will be sending a 4 class 772 as the second daily frequency for the summer, which will run from June 3 through Sep 29.

JAL will resume their daily flights to Tokyo Narita on the 788 starting on 6/1. They have been running 4 weekly 772 flights.

Also there is a nice colorful add for Copa's new Panama City service at the Charles/MGH stop.
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Hopefully the Copa service does well. They have only 124 seats to fill and they are Star Alliance so they have a chance of getting the United frequent fliers and US one's (until the merger goes through). The growing JetBlue hub in FLL will be a future competitor to Copa as well.


Also anyone hear any grumblings from the Mideast 3 carriers or Turkish? The Turkish CEO stated Atlanta and San Fran would be next for Istanbul-US destinations. I don't why Atlanta would be served before Boston. :confused:

Jetblue also mentioned that two-way codeshares will be coming soon with a few airlines. South African seems to be a definite and I am hoping for Icelandair personally since as of March they are no longer allied with an American carrier. Who do you think will wind up getting these codeshares with Jetblue?
 
It's only a matter of tie before one of the big Gulf carriers announce Boston service. I think it's a safe assumption that by 2015, Boston will have non-stop flights to the region.

Turkish have stated a list of cities they intend to start service to, of which Boston is on that list. According to some people over on airliners.net, who posted O&D stats, Boston is a larger market to Istanbul than Atlanta is. I doubt we'll see Atlanta be served before some other key US markets, especially given the fact that Turkish is part of Star and not Sky Team, of which ATL is a massive hub for.
 
This is a surprising turn of events. I am sure this has something to do with PHL turning into a One World hub post AA-US merger.
 
I would think. Philadelphia's not exactly a large international market in its own right.
 
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