Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

It definitely can. Also if the city really wants to the FAA guidelines are just that-guidelines. Looking at the map this looks like it is zoned for 725' anyways so i think they are already getting some leeway here. The South Station tower is right on the line of the 300' and 700' cutoff. The harbor garage towers are zoned for 275' but the BRA said they can go up to about 600. The FAA height limits are not set in stone although the closer you are to a different heigh allowance the easier it is to get it okayed.
I think the real issue, IIRC, is getting a firm to insure any damage to the building. Someone mentioned that as soon as the FAA designate the building as a possible issue due to height, insurance companies run as fast as possible the other way.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I heard that too but I would imagine that is for certain circumstances. The harbor garage towers being zoned for 275' I don't think would be a problem going to 600' because there are plenty of 600 footers all around it. Same with South Station tower. I think that is more for say a 1000 footer at Winthrop where it completely stands alone above everything else around it.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I believe the economics work for NYC but don't cut it for Boston....

Menino's tower was planned at a time when we weren't building 50 or 60 (i lost count) +60m tall structures

Maybe someday, we get something pushing ~925'.

i can't find the really nice youtube on it. Amazing how huge 1005' looks off Central Park....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmmpXDExRV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLj14OTN5A8
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The economics of what don't work here?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The penthouse is going for $37M or something. The Four Seasons is going to be priced at high-end Manhattan prices. Stuff is being built and is getting sold, so I think the economics work here. In the grand scheme of things, Boston is almost every bit as expensive as NYC.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Isn't news on this supposed to be out soon? I remember they had a short time span to come back with their new proposals. Anybody know the date?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

visualhouse_Top_of_the_Rock_-8.0.0.jpg

Wow, I've had my nose too close to this forum to have even noticed the crown for One Vanderbilt and what I've read about it has mainly been from the lens of the transit advocacy because of the amenity they were able to get the developer to build in the base.

Definitely something to a-spire to... I'll see myself out now.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

That's what Back Bay Station should have to minimize shade on Copley Sq.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Wow, I've had my nose too close to this forum to have even noticed the crown for One Vanderbilt and what I've read about it has mainly been from the lens of the transit advocacy because of the amenity they were able to get the developer to build in the base.

Definitely something to a-spire to... I'll see myself out now.

NYC can have that one. I like our original one better.

Rock-the-Plaza_2009_003.jpg
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Isn't news on this supposed to be out soon? I remember they had a short time span to come back with their new proposals. Anybody know the date?

April 21st.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

April 21st.

^Accordia!!!...........course we never saw HYM renders. Plus the final laundry list of wishes/wants/needs for the project may bring a whole new set of exciting proposals........April 21st! :)
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^^ These waits are nothing compared to the waits for the buildings to actually get built. Has Four Seasons even broken ground yet? Anybody else watch the Pierce webcam and notice the core hasn't grown in 2-3 weeks?

Boston probably has the most glacially-paced set of major projects "happening" out of any city on the entire planet. It's discouraging and kind of pathetic. For instance, how excited can you really be about this project when they likely won't even start the garage demo until 2018?

It reminds me of the hallway scene near the end of Poltergeist where the door just keeps getting further and further away. Sometimes I think I picked the world's most annoying hobby.

I fully expect the next recession to hit and kill most of these projects. It's like, LET'S GET EFFING GOING ALREADY, WHAT THE HELL IS EVERYBODY WAITING FOR?!?!

By the way, FAA map has this one at a hard 725', so the 1 Bromfield project will probably become the tallest downtown and not this one. Also, the 2 most buildable sites for a new Boston tallest (according to the FAA map) are currently being squandered by Boston Properties as we speak. So, blahhhhhh........ All talk, no action in Boston.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^^ These waits are nothing compared to the waits for the buildings to actually get built. Has Four Seasons even broken ground yet? Anybody else watch the Pierce webcam and notice the core hasn't grown in 2-3 weeks?

WTF are you even ranting about? Work is work whether it is visible or not.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

WTF are you even ranting about? Work is work whether it is visible or not.

I'll watch a city like Calgary announce a building taller than the Hancock, and then have it topped off while we're still going through the approval process on something 12 stories. A city like Pittsburgh announce a 500'+ project in the Spring, saying they intend to break ground in the Fall. Everything takes twice as long here as it does everywhere else, and that's being generous. I'm going to drop dead of an aneurysm or heart attack before I get to see most of these proposals get built!

So yeah, it's frustrating to see how much is planned and then realize that none of it is out of the ground. We are years and years and years behind schedule here. (cough Copley choke South Station cough this current proposal, cough.... etc.)
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'll watch a city like Calgary announce a building taller than the Hancock, and then have it topped off while we're still going through the approval process on something 12 stories. A city like Pittsburgh announce a 500'+ project in the Spring, saying they intend to break ground in the Fall. Everything takes twice as long here as it does everywhere else, and that's being generous. I'm going to drop dead of an aneurysm or heart attack before I get to see most of these proposals get built!

So yeah, it's frustrating to see how much is planned and then realize that none of it is out of the ground. We are years and years and years behind schedule here. (cough Copley choke South Station cough this current proposal, cough.... etc.)

Is that really true, or does it just seem that way because you're checking those SSC/SSP threads once a month and these threads ten times a day? I ask because I experience the same feeling and often have to remind myself how long it's actually been on those projects.

I mean, Chicago waited many years for Wolf Point and River Point, though 150 North Riverside was pretty sudden - that's not even touching the Spire. Pittsburgh has only had one skyscraper of size recently, and that one moved fast because a company with means was building it for itself (hence removing the "secure financing" and "find an anchor tenant" steps), and it still took 4 years from announcement to opening. According to Wikipedia, the Bow in Calgary was announced in 2006 and completed in 2012. That's not that far off of a Boston timeframe.

There's also the fact that we don't hear about these proposals in other cities until formal documents are filed, which means they're a ways into design. Around here, we're following it from the first possible second.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I feel that way about the Copley Tower
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Is that really true, or does it just seem that way because you're checking those SSC/SSP threads once a month and these threads ten times a day? I ask because I experience the same feeling and often have to remind myself how long it's actually been on those projects.

I mean, Chicago waited many years for Wolf Point and River Point, though 150 North Riverside was pretty sudden - that's not even touching the Spire. Pittsburgh has only had one skyscraper of size recently, and that one moved fast because a company with means was building it for itself (hence removing the "secure financing" and "find an anchor tenant" steps), and it still took 4 years from announcement to opening. According to Wikipedia, the Bow in Calgary was announced in 2006 and completed in 2012. That's not that far off of a Boston timeframe.

There's also the fact that we don't hear about these proposals in other cities until formal documents are filed, which means they're a ways into design. Around here, we're following it from the first possible second.

The actual process to develop and build in Boston is one of the slowest, most expensive and restrictive of any city in the Country from both a cost and time to build standpoint. California (LA, SD,SF), New York City and maybe DC are on par or worse in this sense. A developments timing depends on a whole host of factors and this is just one of them.

Boston is considered a high barrier to entry real estate market in the investment world. This is great for asset values and investors but it leads to a chronic supply shortage making it very expensive for the users. Even Krugman of the NYT wrote a piece on this just this weekend and he probably votes with the majority of the NIMBYs. More of a broader discussion about self imposed restrictions but it has the same effect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/opinion/cities-for-everyone.html
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The actual process to develop and build in Boston is one of the slowest, most expensive and restrictive of any city in the Country from both a cost and time to build standpoint. California (LA, SD,SF), New York City and maybe DC are on par or worse in this sense. A developments timing depends on a whole host of factors and this is just one of them.

Boston is considered a high barrier to entry real estate market in the investment world. This is great for asset values and investors but it leads to a chronic supply shortage making it very expensive for the users. Even Krugman of the NYT wrote a piece on this just this weekend and he probably votes with the majority of the NIMBYs. More of a broader discussion about self imposed restrictions but it has the same effect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/opinion/cities-for-everyone.html

That's fine, but I don't think it goes to the original point. Boston generally having a slow approval process affects all building projects, and I can totally see it making a comparative difference for small apartment blocks and commercial developments. For signature high-rise buildings, however, that "host of factors" looms pretty big compared to the simple fact that a development is located in Boston. It's just too small a sample size and too many project-specific factors.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The way the city is fast-tracking this project could possibly allude to a change in the way the city deals with development? Maahty and the Governor seem very pro-business/development, so maybe this portends more favorable conditions in the days ahead. Plus the BRA revamp, the push for new residential asap, Boston 2030, etc....look at Millennium Tower...that went from concept to topping off in a few short years. (I'm talking after Vornado dumped it)
 

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