Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

No bias - and lots of informed people weighing in - even when I disagree with them.

Here's a back of the envelope on the value of that land.

As it sits - it might be worth $15 million - a multistory garage in disrepair won't bring much in the scheme of downtown real estate - unless Don Chioffaro wants to buy it (and this is the one he should have bought!)

Note the land for the Hancock is assessed at $150 million - commercial assessments (for reasons too complex to get into) tend to be about half of what a property generally sells for - sometimes up to 60% but rarely over that. That means the land is probably worth about $300 million - and should be comparable to what the land for a 700 foot tower of similar dimensions should bring (I have to look it up - but didn't the Hancock sell for about $1 billion the last time it turned over and that was several years ago?).

Try it another way. Say the land is worth $300 million. It costs $400 a sf to put up 1 million sf - $400 million. That leaves $300 million for selling expenses, overhead etc for whomever develops the property assuming it sells for $1 billion - comparable to the Hancock. Numbers might work even better if it's residential at $1500 per sf. I'm not in the real estate biz - but a 30% gross margin seems to be pretty good these days. I know smaller developers that work on maybe half that.

Big question is what will ultimately get built - that will determine the value of the land, but we are definitely looking north of $150 million in almost any reasonable scenario.

Thank you Kevin and Shirley for your hard work on this!

The commenters are delusional.....

The numbers people are throwing out there are way off. The land is worth maybe, 25-35 million. Cost of demo, sinking the new garage underground and building the tower are astronomical. People are speculating wildly on the final value of the tower... The market timing is very late here. It diminishes the provable prebuilt value significantly... That's not to say the situation wouldn't improve down the road, but the people working the financing can't assume that. No one can be sure. The city needs to be far less concerned with raking every last dollar up front - but, instead need to be focused on getting something built before the market goes stale and simply focus on recovering the value of the garage via tax revenue. This is just another an example of Boston activists taking the belief of endless good times and perfect outcomes for granted. The Millennium Partners and AvalonBay Communities have nearly perfectly timed this market. The risk/s on properties that will be coming into the market in the coming years with all the new construction increases exponentially as we move outward....
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

If only there were some way to determine actual market value for that lot.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The market value is to me of secondary importance to the larger issue of property taxes (which I understand is related to assessed value)

By building a 1 million or so square foot tower on the site the assessed value will skyrocket and the property tax levy will be significant for the city. This will mean tens and tens of MILLIONS EVERY YEAR for the city.


It is important to get a fair price for the sale of the land, but it is far far far more important and valuable to develop the lot to its potential and bring the taaxpayers back the tax revenue they deserve.

In the 8 years since this project has first proposed the City has probably conservatively lost 100 MILLION dollars or so in assessed taxes. If they miss this development cycle it will probably cost another 100 MILLION or so.

So while we are arguing over the proper value of the parcel, don't forget the primary objective of developing this parcel is to bring tax revenue back to the public. If we lose 10 or 20 million on what the city COULD have gotten, but ultimately get the project done LONG TERM THAT IS A HUGE HUGE WIN FOR THE TAXPAYERS
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

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If I were a Franciscan siting a church, I'd totally want that to be my entrance plaza.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

You cant complain about housing costs and then knock 20 floors off of every tower that comes across the table. Cant have it both ways. People need to ask themselves what do you really want. There is no middle ground. You either accept that you will be priced out of the city or you allow development. Its one or the other.

Its the same with oil. People complain about trying to stabilize the middle east so our assets are safe and oil rich allies can trade with us. This takes wars like it or not. Then these same people are against drilling back home and building pipelines. Its one or the other. We cannot function without oil. You either keep the flow safe over seas or you drill here. Pick one because those are the short term solutions until we get clean energy figured out in the future.

People want to have their cake and eat it too. This is real life with real life decisions to make. Pick one and live with the consequences.

I saw someone laid it out before not sure where but I feel the city needs to address this. To reach the goal the mayor has set to add whatever amount of housing to the city it is going to take drastic changes. We cant reach 53k i think it was new units and keep the city as it was. Not going to happen. We underbuilt for a long time. Its time to pay the piper. The city is going to change and people need to get on board and allow this to happen or you will be priced out. Its that simple. What do you want?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Let's pump the breaks on the out of context oil/war talk please. I'm sensing a three page off topic digression.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Yea sorry was drunk and was just trying to make a comparison lol, my bad on that 1.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

If 111 Federal will have a 360 degree observation deck, it may as well have a 360 degree revolving restaurant up there as well. Put parking below ground, retail/commercial on the bottom floors, condo/apartments in the middle, and a hotel/amenities/observ. deck on the top floors. (and a nice LIT crown on top!)
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ period. I don't really care about a rotating observation deck, but ground retail, observation deck, and lit crown are necessities.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'd rather it remain a useless eyesore than see the BRA, city council, Mayor Walsh and a greedy developer make off with tens of millions of dollars that rightfully belong to the people of Boston. We should be putting our foot down on this shady deal now so that the city doesn't sell off more of our land for pennies on the dollar. I like tall buildings but I like not getting screwed over by thieves more.

The BRA could sell it for the pathetic amount of $10 million then extract some BS "fees" and the city could be left with nothing. The system needs to be burned to the ground.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I feel like archBoston has been binging on overreactions lately...
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I feel like archBoston has been binging on overreactions lately...

WHAT?!? ARE YOU CRAZY?! NO F'ING WAY!
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Indeed. It is exhausting being OUTRAGED at EVERYTHING all. the. time.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'd rather it remain a useless eyesore than see the BRA, city council, Mayor Walsh and a greedy developer make off with tens of millions of dollars that rightfully belong to the people of Boston. We should be putting our foot down on this shady deal now so that the city doesn't sell off more of our land for pennies on the dollar. I like tall buildings but I like not getting screwed over by thieves more.

The BRA could sell it for the pathetic amount of $10 million then extract some BS "fees" and the city could be left with nothing. The system needs to be burned to the ground.

Maximizing one aspect of anything with multiple dependencies is narrow minded and wasteful. The city is not in the real estate business, there is a bigger picture. They are in the larger business of promoting the best interest of the public and that does not stop at the sale of the land.

Maximizing the combined amount the land is sold for + the public benefit of the development + the future real estate taxes. Like it or not, the BRA process can accomplish this.

Sure, you could sell the land for the most to the highest bidder and hope they build something that provides the most benefit to the overall city, but I would prefer control over mere hope. It is the price you pay.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The annual tax revenue from the finished skyscraper is probably greater than any conceivable sale price for the garage. If "doing it right" and making sure the city gets their piece of the sale delays progress by a year, then it is a net loss for the city.

You don't have to like it, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Unless, of course, the developer is given a tax-relief 'incentive'.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I think 95% has been toward 888 boylston
 

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