Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

JohnAKeith said:
Someone draw in the Chiofaro tower so we can see how much (if any) it's visible from that view.
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I think it would be pretty far out of frame to the left.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Someone used to model proposed buildings and place them in google maps, we need him to come back and bring updates.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Arlington said:
How would a deal with the Franciscans work?
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my early leanings say 'not well.' but it's not an informed opinion.

i keep studying the layout and can barely make heads nor tails out of it.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

odurandina said:
my early leanings say 'not well.' but it's not an informed opinion.
i keep studying the layout and can barely make heads nor tails out of it.
Click to expand...

It looks to me like one reason they might want to move the Franciscans (and other low-rise functions) to the garage site is that the buildings abutting the garage site all have windows onto the site for many floors high (is the the "rule" that you cant "brick over" your neighbors' windows at the lot line?) Seems like any tower directly on the garage site is going to have either a blank wall or a creepy window-to-window views for about the first 30 floors.
ryan_winthropsq1_biz.jpg


Meanwhile the St Anthony's Shrine site (visible at the bottom in the picture above with the "porthole" skylights in it roof) has no tall abutters and so you could theoretically get more windows the lower floors? Plus the St Anthony's site is just that many steps closer to Downtown Crossing.

The Shrine is arguably the better tall-tower site, except that the Franciscan's only condition on moving would be that they need ground-floor retail space and appropriate residential in order to stay in the neighborhood
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Why not build one tower on the garage site and a second on the Shrine site???
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^Exactly: why waste development potential in downtown by building a complex of five-story buildings next to one tower?

Personally, I'm hoping the garage gets built on in this cycle and, somewhere down the road, the Franciscans sell their property (but keep themselves as a major tenant) to another developer for a second tower.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Why not build one tower on the garage site and a second on the Shrine site???
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Because that's not how this works. The developer doesn't own both parcels. It's a land swap.

Do you people not understand how property works? You can't just build stuff wherever you want. Developers do not have carte blance powers. Nor does the city and the city isn't going to eminent domain a religious institution either to build a tower; that's political suicide.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Look, I've played a ton of SimCity and I do it all the time. It's easy!
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I am also going to posit that a lot of what makes midtown NYC work is that there is a mix of 5 story stuff that lets in air and let's light reach the sidewalk: department stores, the Rockefeller Center's pavilions on 5th Ave, the Villiard mansions; St Patrick's; MOMA; converted townhouse-mansions.

Winthrop square itself will get more sun if the tower is on St A's site (northwesterly vs the square) than on the garage site (which will keep the square in deep shadow).

No matter where it moves, I picture the "new St A's" (whenever it happens) will be in the low rise podium part of a tall building, not floors 1 to 5 of the tower.

I also suspect that after 60 years the systems in St A's are shot and the Winthop site is ideal (including that it fronts onto greenspace for the swap--can you suggest one better? (If your're angling for a tower on both garage and shrine sites?)
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^Midtown Manhattan has many other small churches, monasteries, and shrines tucked among the tall buildings. Notably, on W 32 between Herald Sq and Penn Station.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

"Street-level interaction" can certainly be jargon, but I would argue that the environmental context of Winthrop Square creates exceptional incentives (or pressure) to ensure that this tower "meets the public" in the right way with a thoughtful entrance.

In particular, when pedestrians walk through Winthrop Alley, they suddenly burst into this unique urban sanctuary-feeling space, what with the intimacy of the buildings all clustered tightly in a ring around the park with its sheltering tree canopy. This project should strive to accentuate that intimacy and sanctuary feel, however possible. *steps off soapbox*

picture.php
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Do we know if the 725' includes mechanicals?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I thought, and hope, that it is hope that it is to the highest occupied floor. Total dream I know.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

meddlepal said:
Because that's not how this works. The developer doesn't own both parcels. It's a land swap.

Do you people not understand how property works? You can't just build stuff wherever you want. Developers do not have carte blance powers. Nor does the city and the city isn't going to eminent domain a religious institution either to build a tower; that's political suicide.
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Yeah, I understand how property works. The BRA owns the garage and is selling it. Build a tower on it. Later, when they sell the shrine, build another. Two towers on two lots by two developers.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

At some point, the winning design will be on a pdf with the roof tip reaching between 740' and 780'.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

TallIsGood said:
Later, when they sell the shrine, build another.
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Easier said than done, of course.

1.) Only two years ago, St. Anthony's sold the retirement center across the street (converted to FiDi Lofts apartment complex) and pocketed a cool $2.2 million.

In theory that removed whatever financially-induced duress/incentive they may have been facing.

2.) I see from their Assessing page that they don't control their own fate, insofar as the owner's mailing address is in Manhattan. So they'd have "talk to New York" (literally) to get a decision/approval on this. By the time that happens...
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Boston + Avalon, Garden Garage and 111 Federal....

original photo credit; DZH22

 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Throw copley + 1 dalton on there. Govt garage would really round it all out too. Regardless tho that skyline looks great.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

DBM said:
Easier said than done, of course.


2.) I see from their Assessing page that they don't control their own fate, insofar as the owner's mailing address is in Manhattan. So they'd have "talk to New York" (literally) to get a decision/approval on this. By the time that happens...
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The New York address is that of the province headquarters for the Order of Friars Minor. The province likely owns most Franciscan properties in the following states. Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida.

PROVINCIAL OFFICE
129 West 31st St., 2nd Fl
New York, NY 10001-3403

https://hnp.org/
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

stellarfun said:
The New York address is that of the province headquarters for the Order of Friars Minor. The province likely owns most Franciscan properties in the following states. Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida.

PROVINCIAL OFFICE
129 West 31st St., 2nd Fl
New York, NY 10001-3403

https://hnp.org/
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Fair enough. But this still means there's a fundamental disconnect between absentee ownership and the local management, which of course is privy to and lives all the day-to-day, facts on the ground realities which the New York leadership is at a remove from. Versus if the ownership actually resided on Arch St.
 
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