Crazy Transit Pitches

[TheRatmeister]

Dover is probably the most NIMBY town in all of Massachusetts.

Probably not a coincidence that it's also the richest town (by per capita income) in Massachusetts.

 

[Tallguy]

It’s my understanding that Main, Broadway, and Binney streets will have to be at-grade regardless of mode. It looks like there’s enough room to bridge/pass under Mass Ave for either mode as well. I think the main argument is that light rail will be able to interface with traffic better than main line rail can. Could better timed traffic signals be able to facilitate traffic flow with the addition of grade crossings? I feel like that problem would need to be sorted out with either light rail or main line rail.

You are correct about MainSt, but an LRT system could be grade separated at Broadway and Binney

 

[thepixelnation]

I'm not in the place to plan this, so I guess I'll give a prompt.

If Boston built a new Elevated Railway (an "El"), where would it/should it go?

 

[HenryAlan]

There are actually a lot of cyclists who ride on the roads in Dover, which is a big surprise considering the lack of sidewalks/bike lanes and the vociferous opposition to the rail trail.

Dover is actually a fun place to ride. Getting there, though, is somewhat problematic, which is why I only ride in Dover as part of a large group ride, where numbers = visibility.

 

[Longfellow]

I'm not in the place to plan this, so I guess I'll give a prompt.

If Boston built a new Elevated Railway (an "El"), where would it/should it go?

Mass Ave, 1 bus route.

 

[TheRatmeister]

I'm not in the place to plan this, so I guess I'll give a prompt.

If Boston built a new Elevated Railway (an "El"), where would it/should it go?

For conventional elevated rail, there really aren't that many corridors that are wide enough. The wide viaducts block out nearly all light from the streets below, which is made much worse if it's surrounded by tall buildings. Here's my list of streets from a previous discussion:

Melnea Cass: Would be great for connecting Andrew/Widdett Circle and Nubian.

Revere Beach Pkwy: The section from Broadway to Bell Circle could be useful, but it bypasses the densest parts of Revere. The rest could maybe be an orbital connection between Everett and Revere but again it bypasses the important parts of both and there also just isn't tons of demand for such a connection.

Fellsway/McGrath: Connects nicely to the Grand Junction but doesn't go anywhere particularly useful otherwise.

Rutherford + Broadway: Could be a good corridor between Medford or Everett and Downtown, but a tunneled continuation would be needed on both sides to make it useful, and if we're building a new subway line downtown I think sending it to Chelsea is a better choice, although Rutherford is well positioned to get to Everett.

BHA: What BHA doesn't really need is a fast line to downtown, that already exists and it's called the Fairmount Line. What BHA needs is a faster local service, capable of branching often and running many different services. (Aka, buses and/or trams)

I'd probably also add the Grand Junction, and upgrade my evaluation on Broadway/Alford to be more positive.

If we're willing to consider a suspended railway, and I'm aware I'm really pushing the limits of a crazy transit pitch here, that would potentially open up more corridors. Suspension railways have significantly less negative impact on the street below in terms of blocking light, and could in theory be used on any corridor wider than around 65ft, which is most main streets. I believe the SAFEGE and SIPEM systems have also mostly solved switching, so you don't need the slow sliding switches of a conventional monorail or the Schwebebahn. Stations still need to be much wider and therefore more thoughtfully placed, but it's a lot easier to find that kind of space every half-mile or so than a continuous corridor.

Of course, the big problem is that essentially zero existing infrastructure could be reused given that Boston currently has zero suspended monorails. (and I don't think any have been built since the last time I checked.) The swaying also presents a minor challenge for accessibility but that should be solvable.

 

[HenryAlan]

I'm not in the place to plan this, so I guess I'll give a prompt.

If Boston built a new Elevated Railway (an "El"), where would it/should it go?

I've always thought Columbia Road might be a decent candidate. It's wide, there is a high population density, and it connects well to UMass and the Red Line on one end. Going the other direction, I'm not sure what you do with it when it reaches Blue Hill Ave., but it would be nice to find a way to connect it to the Orange Line (without going through the park).

 

[737900er]

I'd probably also add the Grand Junction

I'd say Newton Upper Falls to Needham Jct should probably be considered for elevated too for similar reasons.

 

[FK4]

It seems like there could actually be more than that. There's a few spots that look interesting from above, and I saw one comment somewhere, I unfortunately can't find it now, saying that they were able to find something on the east side of 93.

Even if the ROW is intact as far as I think it might be, you're right that it's still around .4 miles of new ROW that would need to be taken from the tree boundary.

I am sure I am not alone in that there is a special form of satisfaction looking on satellite views for hidden, ancient RR ROWs—unmatched except by the pleasure of being in some old town and suddenly noticing that that elevated ridge looks a little too graded, or seeing a random abutment to a long-gone overpass, in a place you never expected.

 

[TheRatmeister]

I am sure I am not alone in that there is a special form of satisfaction looking on satellite views for hidden, ancient RR ROWs—unmatched except by the pleasure of being in some old town and suddenly noticing that that elevated ridge looks a little too graded, or seeing a random abutment to a long-gone overpass, in a place you never expected.

It's piqued my curiosity enough that I'll probably go in person to check it out and see what's left. I'll be sure to post pictures if it's interesting.

 

[FK4]

It's piqued my curiosity enough that I'll probably go in person to check it out and see what's left. I'll be sure to post pictures if it's interesting.

Awesome. Yeah I am a sucker for ROWs swallowed up by nature.

 

[CheapLeak]

Going back to an extension to Millis, could a double tracked Franklin line even carry Franklin, Foxboro and Walpole services in a RR setting?

 

[TheRatmeister]

Going back to an extension to Millis, could a double tracked Franklin line even carry Franklin, Foxboro and Walpole services in a RR setting?

That would be maybe 8TPH max? Not exactly a capacity crunch there.

 

[Charlie_mta]

For conventional elevated rail, there really aren't that many corridors that are wide enough. The wide viaducts block out nearly all light from the streets below, which is made much worse if it's surrounded by tall buildings. Here's my list of streets from a previous discussion:

I'd probably also add the Grand Junction, and upgrade my evaluation on Broadway/Alford to be more positive.

If we're willing to consider a suspended railway, and I'm aware I'm really pushing the limits of a crazy transit pitch here, that would potentially open up more corridors. Suspension railways have significantly less negative impact on the street below in terms of blocking light, and could in theory be used on any corridor wider than around 65ft, which is most main streets. I believe the SAFEGE and SIPEM systems have also mostly solved switching, so you don't need the slow sliding switches of a conventional monorail or the Schwebebahn. Stations still need to be much wider and therefore more thoughtfully placed, but it's a lot easier to find that kind of space every half-mile or so than a continuous corridor.

Of course, the big problem is that essentially zero existing infrastructure could be reused given that Boston currently has zero suspended monorails. (and I don't think any have been built since the last time I checked.) The swaying also presents a minor challenge for accessibility but that should be solvable.

The suspended railway in your streetview link (screenshot below) could just as easily be a normal elevated railway, with the tracks mounted on top of the horizontal beams in that suspended railway structure. Sure, the structure would be a few feet wider on each side of the two parallel beams, but when it's that high up off the ground, I think that would be acceptable.

 

[Riverside]

As for the dinky to Dover...pure God Mode. That town is so other-level NIMBY they don't even want the rail trail

Can't turn 'em into YIMBYs without something to say yes to

All kidding aside, yes this is a project that fails on the current-and-foreseeable political level, regardless of the physical considerations. And like I said:

yes there are many projects whose priority I would put above this one.

Exploring an idea on a web forum =/= endorsement.

And besides -- proverbially putting it on an acid-dream spider map did draw my attention to the Town Forest, and I think that is a concept worth adding to the conversation. (Particularly because, in terms of "lines on a map", to the general public it would look like an expansion of service, which Needham GLX otherwise might seem "wobbly" on to a layperson.)

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Going back to an extension to Millis, could a double tracked Franklin line even carry Franklin, Foxboro and Walpole services in a RR setting?

Yes. There's only 1 fairly minor grade crossing (Norwood Depot Station) out to Walpole Jct. so there wouldn't be any crossing carpocalypses with 12 TPH, and nearly all schedules would be local meaning it's an orderly linear procession with no real dispatching complexity. The problem is simply that it's not going to be as fast as a bus to Walpole Station given the somewhat circuitous rail route, and all-day Regional Rail service levels may be wasted on the un-dense surroundings.

I really think it should be a priority to get a timed Millis-Medfield-Walpole bus up and running as soon as Regional Rail implants itself. If there's any juice at all for the rail route (and I doubt there is) it would come from that bus hitting a home-run on utilization. We don't need to rely on a lot of Crazy Pitches guesswork; the route-priming strategy is very straightforward here.

 

[737900er]

Random thought I had today:

Logan Airport is space constrained. They're never going to grow their footprint outside of what they have today. At the same time, there is significant demand for them to add more gates and ramp space.
Building a Logan Peoplemover would require a maintenance facility inside of the Logan footprint or an elevated yard on top of some other building. Right now they have about 4.5 acres dedicated to a bus facility. Offloading this to the UR would mean there doesn't need to be a maintenance facility at Logan and that space can be reallocated to other uses (e.g. a new State Police station)

 

[The EGE]

People mover yards aren't that big. The one for SFO, substantially bigger than Logan would need, is about a 1-acre building with half an acre of outside trackage.

The more I fly through Logan, the more convinced I am that it needs a people mover. The airport is simply so frustrating to access on public transit. The SL1 is paralyzed by traffic much of the day; I don't know if it's fixable without dedicated lanes through the Ted. The shuttle buses are next to useless - they seem to operate on no fixed schedule and get caught up in airport traffic. Massport must be induced to make transit a priority - which will necessarily require decoupling rental car and parking income from the rest of airport operations. Otherwise, they will continue to prioritize those to improve their budget.

 

[RandomWalk]

My borderline crazy pitch: Extending the B line down Commonwealth Ave to Newton Center. Mostly crazy due to the NIMBY reaction.

 

[HenryAlan]

My borderline crazy pitch: Extending the C line down Commonwealth Ave to Newton Center. Mostly crazy due to the NIMBY reaction.

Comm Ave or Beacon Street? You can certainly send the C-Line trains to Comm Ave via the connection on Chestnut Hill Ave. But I think of Newton Center as being on Beacon Street, not Comm Ave. Why not just extend on Beacon for this NIMBY infuriating idea?