đź”· Open Thread

I decided to check traffic today and I have never seen so many roads marked orange before and when I zoomed in the orange was consistent it didn't fragment much and there were even areas of red that weren't shown before.

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(I hadn't seen it was snowing farther south than me when I first posted this but its still a crazy looking traffic map)
 
I decided to check traffic today and I have never seen so many roads marked orange before and when I zoomed in the orange was consistent it didn't fragment much and there were even areas of red that weren't shown before.

(I hadn't seen it was snowing farther south than me when I first posted this but its still a crazy looking traffic map)

My husband got a call from his work downtown at 7:30 saying the 8:30 meeting was cancelled because there were reports of at least 12 accidents by that point.
 
Wow that is crazy! I am still waiting to see if I get anything where I am. I hope everyone stays safe today.
 
Traffic is shockingly good right now actually. I-93/SE-Exway/Big Dig/Northern Exway, tunnels, Tobin, Pike, Storrow, all clear. People must have just taken a snow day.

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Are a bunch of transit advocates really discussing cars and traffic?
 
I don't want to clutter the GLX thread, so I'll post here:

Why do some on this board love union labor, when it so obviously raises the cost of projects that our transit system needs and has trouble affording?
 
Why do some on this board love union labor, when it so obviously raises the cost of projects that our transit system needs and has trouble affording?

That is a blanket statement which is pretty ignorant of why unions exist in the first place. Unions are a good thing. Corruption is bad. Not all unions are corrupt. Sure you have a bad apple now and then which is up to the union to deal with because it will make them look bad.

The GLX isn't over budget because of unionized labor, it's because the different levels of management were either criminally ignorant or straight up corrupt.

What is needed in this country is a change of attitude. We are taught to see unions as an us-vs-them situation where upper level management is good and the workers are evil and greedy. Or vise-versa! We need a system where unions and management works together for the same goal. This, unfortunately, is going to take a complete shift in how we think about work and I doubt that will happen is "capitalist" America.
 
I read a great article a while ago (probably in the Atlantic) that I can't find now.

I'm going to do a terrible job paraphrasing, but essentially its argument was that unions were once a great good for this country. They allowed workers to rise against oppressionist robber-barons, unsafe and unethical working conditions, etc. They were prevalent across virtually every sector of employment, and ensured a good wage for a good chunk of the population, particularly blue collar workers. Collectively, they allowed individual workers to band together to equal the power of the extremely rich and powerful they were fighting for rights against. At the height of the unions, most families had either one member in one, or at least a direct relative. Wages, safety, and benefits across the board were good for most everyone, and the economy of the country prospered for decades. Home ownership was achievable to most, as was a car and a comfortable retirement.

Then two things happened. First, the government began regulating the vast majority of what unions were fighting for, particularly safety. Second, technology advanced, creating new white collar jobs while simultaneously obliterating blue collar ones. These new white collar jobs were typically not unionized, as employers offered excellent benefits to their employees to attract and retain the best talent.

However, now these white collar jobs are essentially the same as blue collar of the early to mid 20th century. The market is now oversaturated with computer programmers, accountants, brokers, even lawyers. Vacation and benefits packages are slashed, pensions are pretty much non-existent, working hours are drastically increased, both physically and the expectation one is to be available 24/7 via phone or email, and even the physical environment can be stifling.

The unions that still exist have very much lost their way. They fight for what they have always fought for, but for what reason is unclear. Many are public, not private, meaning that they are very often fighting taxpayers, not a corporate giant. Meanwhile vast swaths of the workforce, who could likely benefit from organization, are anti-union for what they see as a corrupt institution... which it basically has become.

A large part of this is a generational shift. Those that created the great unions of the past were fighters. They had fought the great wars, had lived through the great depression or had parents who had, and lived with very few social benefits. They were used to fighting for what they saw as fair and just. The idea of coming together and fighting for what was needed had been lived through.

Today, the workforce is more complacent. Most people from the world wars and depression are dead, and the current workforce is several generations removed. Top-down change is seen as the primary means to an end, not bottom-up. Add to this the plethora of issues with the current unions, and the hatred towards union labor seems clear.

I believe the author's argument was that the entire concept of unions essentially needs to be rebooted. The unions that exist need a complete change in mission, or possibly even to be dismantled. Meanwhile, the new workforce needs to band together to fight for their rights. Expecting the government or corporations to exercise change from the top down is not as effective as creating change from the bottom up. The issues with the wage gap and 1% are exemplified by this. The workforce is better educated than it ever has been and yet adjusting for cost of living and inflation makes less money than those in the 60s and 70s.





----If anyone knows what article I'm talking about please post it, it was a great read and a million times better then what I just wrote. It changed my perspective on the concept of unionised labor, too.
 
Such a great, nuanced response. Thank you for taking the time! I'm going to look for that article. It really does seem that our public unions are no longer needed - or at least that they need not exist in their current form, anymore. I love your point about public unions fighting the taxpayer rather than a corporation. That is the crux of the problem - and one I had trouble articulating.

Too often, it seems these public, union employees make more money than the average taxpayer. Yet they are organized and fighting for even higher pay. It has become the rich, organizing and fighting the poor to pay them more, against their will.
 
The problem with unions is they don't work in a globalized economy; I could have told you that without reading the article.
 
The problem with unions is they don't work in a globalized economy; I could have told you that without reading the article.

You could say that any Tragedy of the Commons problem doesn't work in a globalized economy. And then we can all race to the bottom. Sounds like a bright future.
 
Transit or unions. Pick one.

How on earth are these two mutually exclusive? Like, what data points could you possibly be looking at that makes you even think that would be a possibility? I'd love to see the peer reviewed research on the great transit systems of the world that concluded they were great because they didn't have unions. Seriously, that would be amazing because I've always assumed the transit in Europe and East Asia were great.
 
How on earth are these two mutually exclusive? Like, what data points could you possibly be looking at that makes you even think that would be a possibility? I'd love to see the peer reviewed research on the great transit systems of the world that concluded they were great because they didn't have unions. Seriously, that would be amazing because I've always assumed the transit in Europe and East Asia were great.

We are talking about ways to cut costs for the MBTA. One such way is by using non-union workforce. And also, you have no idea what "tragedy of the commons" means.

Hooray MBTA unions!
 
Sorry, I thought you were going to tell us about how transit and unions are mutually exclusive despite the fact that most of the best transit agencies in the world are in heavily unionized countries.
 
Sorry, I thought you were going to tell us about how transit and unions are mutually exclusive despite the fact that most of the best transit agencies in the world are in heavily unionized countries.

Why would anyone make such an asinine argument? Well, when the stories keep coming out showing that you are wrong about how *awesome* and *super* and *amazing* all of the MBTA employee/union practices are, just misdirect by using "Asia." Look, it isn't working. It needs to change. There is no more to it.

I'm not going to make such an absurd argument that unions and mass transit are mutually exclusive. Or even that unions are bad across the board. And you painting me into that argument is a very obvious logical fallacy. Rather, I am saying that the MBTA unions and employee practices are not working, are corrupt, and are one of the things that are preventing us from having good mass transit. How do you possibly disagree with that. Again, address the actual argument at hand:

"the MBTA unions and employee practices are not working, are corrupt, and are one of the things that are preventing us from having good mass transit."

Please, don't deflect. If you disagree, fine. But why?
 

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