30 Story Building for Portland?

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portlandneedsnewarena

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Developer John Cacoulidis just bought several more properties in Portland including the building on 385 Congress St. He says he plans on building a 30 story building on the property. He says it will be a "classy building". Basement parking, 1st floor retail, bank and pharmacy, eight levels of parking and then on top of that the remaining floors will be office and hotel space. Add a restaurant at the very top of the building. What a view!
Personally I would love to see it happen, but I doubt it ever will since the City of Portland & City Council is so anti development and just doesn't get it.
I think John C. is shooting for 30 stories high because he knows that the City will never approve a building that tall and they might settle for something around 20 to 22 stories high.
Like I said, I doubt this will ever happen but it's nice to dream.
The Portland skyline needs a high-rise signature building.
 
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I agree. I hope it goes through, but will most likely never. It might get scaled down, but I imagine he'll get mad about the lenghty process that Portland will make him go through and probably withdraw. Oh well.
 
last week I spoke with a city councilor about this, and I was informed that the zoning is designed to taper down around that area because of city hall. however, he did say there was a good chance the building could be tall, if cacoulidis wants to build it.

http://www.wmtw.com/news/19791826/detail.html
 
how many 60,000 people towns have 30 story buildings :p

I'd like to see this. Portlands a nice town.
 
Like Portsmouth, Hartford, etc., Portland is at the center of a much larger metro area than its population in city would indicate. That might explain why it is bigger than somewhere like Framingham, with the same population (it also used to have 80,000 people).

However, that said, even if the demand is there for a thirty story building, I think it might look odd. It is not in the center of the city, and this isn't Boston, so it wouldn't look neat like the JH in back bay. Maybe it would, but I doubt it, not unless the adjacent parking lot was developed into a high rise contemporaneously. 24 stories would blend better. Its still way taller than anything in the city right now. I don't think 30 stories is too tall for Portland, especially in a mixed use development, but in this area? I would like to see something like maybe a a 24 story and a 7 story all built in one complex than a 30 story monolithic block. whatever is built there, it should interact with pedestrians in a good way, which requires variation in height, in my opinion. If the building was set back, with a nice plaza or courtyard I think it would be great. I guess it all depends on how the city wants to redevelop Frankliin arterial and the top of the old port parking lot. This could be the start of a new center city. But with the city the way it is, I don't think so.
 
What would you consider the "Center of the city" patrick? I agree it would stick out like a sore thumb but if it were a great looking building it wouldn't really matter. Look at the Empire State Building, it doesn't have any other tall buildings right around it.

Can someone remind me again how Franklin Towers was approved? I assume that since it is owned by the city (right? public housing) they didn't have to 'jump over hurdles' like other developers so they were able to put up a horrible looking building without much fuss.


And while I am ranting (sorry) I want to say again that the size of a building's footprint is important, too. Creating smaller buildings that are built to a human scale foster pedestrian friendly urban areas when done right. An area like Exchange Street would not be built today because people for some reason don't like the idea of buildings touching each other and lacking private driveways.

Neat read:
http://hdcvoice.blogspot.com/2008/01/superblock-lives-unfortunately.html
 
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Not just cause we all like tall buildings on this forum, but I really hate the look of our buildings. Too short can be just as bad as too tall. Our buildings look so stubby and boxy. I like a good 4-5 story building but it seems our 10-15 story buildings are the ugliest. I think once you crack 18 or so it would look better.
 
grittys457 said:
Not just cause we all like tall buildings on this forum, but I really hate the look of our buildings. Too short can be just as bad as too tall. Our buildings look so stubby and boxy. I like a good 4-5 story building but it seems our 10-15 story buildings are the ugliest. I think once you crack 18 or so it would look better.
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corey: by center city I mean center skyline. if you look at the gradual increase of building heights from any of the traditional skyline perspectives the buildings slope up toward time and temp, and this building would skew the center of the skyline. certainly, this is in the middle of the city, but I was referring more to one city center area, the "visual center."
 
also, new york has one of the worst skylines in the U.S. don't get me wrong, aerials are interesting to look at, but the design of the skyline is not great.

and gritty's...I think the Maine bank and trust building is very nice looking, as well as one portland square and one city center. franklin towers was actually approved at the impetus of city business leaders leading the urban renewal movement, back when all of the businesses in town were locally headquartered and their was more of a local business vibrancy.
 
Josh, if you think the Time and Temp building doesn't look great architecturally, think about it when it was two stories shorter than it is now, without the sign. It used to be just 12 stories. if you look at it, you can tell the top two were added after completion of the original building. But I agree with you it is not an architectural gem. They should at least update the flashing digi sign.

And about the cacoulidis proposal, it is just a concept now, not actually a 'proposal.' he has not actually bought the property yet. he has entered into a purchase and sale agreement, which gives him time to assess the site etc before closing the transaction. sometimes developers will make such a closing contingent upon preliminary approval of a concept plan by the city. if portland doesn't give him at least a maybe then he might not complete the transaction.
 
What disappoints me about both the Time & Temp Building and Maine Bank & Trust buildings is that, despite their beautiful facade facing Monument Square, the back sides are eyesores.

Example:
backmainebankandtrustpo.jpg




I also disagree that this location is too far from the rest of the skyline. The 'downtown' area of Portland is tiny.

newtower.jpg



Also:

Josh said:
I agree, Patrick. I like most of the buildings around monument square, except for the Time and Temp. building, which is a landmark, but not a great looking building.
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Most buildings right around the square are very nice but the Key Bank Building is no good. They are re-doing the facade and windows right now. Not sure exactly what it's going to look like but in a recent Portland Daily Sun article they said it would look 'new' and 'modern.' They are adding an entrance to the building on Monument Square and adding restaurant space on the first floor.
 
from http://www.mainememory.net/bin/Detail?ln=21042

21042.jpg


I don't mind either of these buildings, even if they are a little blocky. They were very impressive towers at the time they were built. I think the problem is that the next wave of towers didn't come until a less appealing style was popular (franklin towers, one city center, etc).
 
How do u define overly ambitious? only about 23 stories of it would be office. If you look at intermed, and the three buildings that were previously planned for the area behind whole foods there would have been more than 30 floors. It seems like if this project was in smaller increments built here and there throughout the city no one would think it was too big. for some reason when you put all the office space in the same building it seems too big for maine or something. but in the article it says very clearly that while the rental price is would be high for maine, it would be low for boston, which is where the companies this office is potentially renting to would be relocating to. I think it might fit the street better if it was a 25 story building. and I thouught about what I said earlier, about it not being around any other tall buildings. its not so much that which I think would make it stick out too much, because youre right corey the emp state building is similar, but I think its that it abuts a residential section of town that would make it look very awkward. I mean on one side would be a 4 story office building, then a parking area, then triple deckers? it would be odd to say the least.
 
I say get rid of the parking option adn build a 23 story building. that would be better, more attractive, and would fit in with portland's plans better. Another thing is that he said he would be willing to buy the parking area next door to accommodate the building. that area is zoned much taller than the area in the article. he could very easily build tall there. why not just propose it on that site instead? he would still need a zoning variance, but not by much.
 
and to add something else, at 23 stories, it would still be the tallest building north of Boston (unless that Lowell structure is taller...) because Manchester only has 20 story buildings and burlington, lewiston, nashua and bangor are nowhere near this height.

cacoulidis should negotiate reduced parking, which the city would probably allow for this, especially if he bought the parking area next door. the building, at that height, would only be slightly taller than franklin towers, would fit in better with the mid sized character of portland, would still contribute very much to the skyline, and would have a better chance at getting built due to less neighborhood opposition.
 
this is something I would like to see in portland. I DON'T want a massive urban block, undifferentiated in style or architecture with a bland retail space topped with parking garage supporting an office park in the sky. That is not what makes portland enjoyable. but height would be nice, if sone right
kakyoin_pic.jpg
 
Patriots_1228 said:
how many 60,000 people towns have 30 story buildings :p

I'd like to see this. Portlands a nice town.
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Have you ever driven past White Plains, NY on your way to NYC? They have a population smaller than Portlands (about 53,000), but White Plains has quite a few high rises.

Skyline.jpg
 
White Plains does have a nice selection of taller buildings, but seems like a much bigger city than it is due to its proximity to NYC and its commuter population.

From the White Plains wikipedia page:

"According to the city government, the daytime weekday population is estimated at 250,000."
 
TerminatorX said:
Have you ever driven past White Plains, NY on your way to NYC? They have a population smaller than Portlands (about 53,000), but White Plains has quite a few high rises.

Skyline.jpg
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Well, i usually take the train, but i do know that city.
Its got freakishly large buildings for such a small city. There are also two twin 30-40 story towers under construction, i don't know if they are in that picture.
 
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