[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^Different garage. O'Brien is representing The Government Center Garage, which Chiofaro has nothing to do with.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^statler

Thanks for catching that.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The plan says (in the other article) that it will allow for negotiation if the project exceeds limits but Menino has shown nothing that he plans to negotiate. Here's hoping that Chiofaro builds a 200ft stumpy wall.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'll never understand why people will root for the deterioration of our city so that 'their guy' can win some sort of Pyrrhic victory.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

statler said:
I'll never understand why people will root for the deterioration of our city so that 'their guy' can win some sort of Pyrrhic victory.
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Because statler, whatever is going to be built here will be a deterioration of our city anyways. Let it be a lesson learned. The worse, the more powerful the message is.

Also, it's a peaceful method of showing defiance to the mayor and his cronies. I'm sick of the BRA's unnecessarily long process. I'm sick of the park requirement for every major development. I'm sick of the communities complaining about blocked views and shadows. Stick it to them.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

KentXie said:
Because statler, whatever is going to be built here will be a deterioration of our city anyways. Let it be a lesson learned. The worse, the more powerful the message is.

Also, it's a peaceful method of showing defiance to the mayor and his cronies. I'm sick of the BRA's unnecessarily long process. I'm sick of the park requirement for every major development. I'm sick of the communities complaining about blocked views and shadows. Stick it to them.
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Looks like this is officially dead. Wondering if Chiofaro can actually build an extra 50Ft of parking spaces on top of the garage?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/08/19/chiofaro_says_hes_seeking_compromise/

Chiofaro says he?s seeking compromise
But developer still insists Boston?s 200-foot limit for waterfront site is unrealistic

By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / August 19, 2010

Developer Donald J. Chiofaro offered to compromise with Boston officials over the size of his proposed waterfront complex after city planning officials adopted a 200-foot height limit on the property Tuesday.

The developer did not release specifics, other than to say the project would be shorter than the 625 feet he most recently proposed.

However, he said the complex, which would include two towers of different heights, would still have to exceed the 200-foot limit to justify the high construction costs, including costs of an expensive underground parking facility.

?We?re very comfortable in our assessment that 200 feet won?t work,?? Chiofaro said.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority has adopted new height limits for the Harbor Garage site, which Chiofaro aims to use, and 20 other properties along the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway. The limits are intended to prevent buildings from casting shadows on the Greenway and blocking access to Boston Harbor.

For weeks, Chiofaro has traded barbs with Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino, who contends the developer is pushing for the largest possible project in order to maximize profits.

But in his remarks yesterday, Chiofaro struck a more conciliatory tone.

?This is not a personal situation between me and the mayor,?? Chiofaro said. ?I like the mayor and have great respect for him. We should not be adversaries, because I think we have the same objective, to replace the garage.??

A spokeswoman for Menino said City Hall is ?open to a new proposal as long as it?s consistent with the Greenway guidelines?? and other zoning requirements.

It?s unclear if the tensions will ease enough for city officials and Chiofaro to work out a compromise anytime soon. As recently as Sunday, Chiofaro had a letter published in the Globe accusing Menino and the BRA?s director, John Palmieri, of inventing reasons to block his project.

?That the city officials would rather discuss process and raise paper-thin ?legal? objections . . . than discuss the project?s real merits says a lot about the state of leadership in this city,?? Chiofaro wrote.

His missive was in response to a letter that Palmieri had published, in which he said Chiofaro has not addressed a number of legal roadblocks.

?The ball is in the developer?s court, not the city?s,?? Palmieri wrote.

At least one person with a close-up view of the tussle said the BRA?s approval of the Greenway height limits gives the two sides a new framework for negotiations.

?There is an opportunity now to tone down the rhetoric and focus on what amenities this site can offer and how to address traffic, wind, and shadow impacts,?? said Vivien Li, executive director of the Boston Harbor Association, a civic group that monitors waterfront development. ?But if there continues to be these charged statements, I don?t think anything will move forward.??

Chiofaro and city officials appear to agree on some points: that the concrete parking garage is not an ideal use of the property, and that redevelopment is crucial to bringing new activity to the Greenway and enhancing access to Boston Harbor.

But as with most major waterfront developments, the difficulty lies in reaching agreement on the details:

Is 200 feet an absolute limit, or is the city amenable to a compromise? How much outdoor space should be included on the site, and how should the Greenway and Harbor be connected? And what must Chiofaro do to prevent car traffic generated by his complex from becoming a constant hassle for neighboring condominium owners?

Chiofaro said yesterday that none of these issues are insurmountable, and that he will address all of them in a revised plan he expects to release in the next couple of weeks.

?I hope we will be able to demonstrate that we?re flexible and that we?ve been listening,?? Chiofaro said. ?Certainly, no one will be able to accuse us of quitting on this, because that?s not going to happen.??

Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.
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If they could get the height up to 400 feet and are willing to spend on developing a world-class design; couldn't money be made on the premium rents? I understand wanting to or needing to recoup on construction costs but it's not like he would be paying for an 800 foot tower while only building something 200 feet. Yet Chiofaro speaks as though he would be...
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

"A spokeswoman for Menino said City Hall is ?open to a new proposal as long as it?s consistent with the Greenway guidelines?? and other zoning requirements."

This statement says it all. City Hall is not compromising on the the project. I don't know why Chiofaro is wasting his energy now.

At this point I would auction off the parking spaces for 150K a pop in a 99 year lease and completely fuck the city and the Greenway.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Menino's Boston is becoming a dystopia.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

"The limits are intended to prevent buildings from casting shadows on the Greenway and blocking access to Boston Harbor."

Hmmm... build too tall and you block views. Build it shorter and it needs to get fatter, blocking access to Boston Harbor.

Basically the new guidelines block building anything.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Rifleman, you say "At this point I would auction off the parking spaces for 150K a pop in a 99 year lease and completely fuck the city and the Greenway."

That seems a little self-important, wouldn't you say? I mean, the garage has been there since the 1970s and neither the city nor the Greenway has been particularly "fucked" on account of the garage's presence during the intervening years.

Besides, the garage's impact on the Greenway has more to do with what retailers are on the ground floor than what's on top of them...look at all the Greenway edges - it's the ground floor that counts. Ugly? Maybe, but I bet plenty of people think IP is ugly too, and I bet you wouldn't take the position that IP is a drag on the Greenway just because people think it's ugly, would you?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I think IP is ugly, but the garage is orders of magnitude uglier. I don't think you'll find many people agreeing with that equation. IMO, IP wouldn't be that much of a blight on the Greenway (if we do need to think of it this way, rather than considering the Greenway a blight upon the city as a whole) by improving its base, but the garage would almost definitely remain so. It's a concrete wall punctured by exhaust holes for cars!
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
Rifleman, you say "At this point I would auction off the parking spaces for 150K a pop in a 99 year lease and completely fuck the city and the Greenway."

That seems a little self-important, wouldn't you say? I mean, the garage has been there since the 1970s and neither the city nor the Greenway has been particularly "fucked" on account of the garage's presence during the intervening years.

Besides, the garage's impact on the Greenway has more to do with what retailers are on the ground floor than what's on top of them...look at all the Greenway edges - it's the ground floor that counts. Ugly? Maybe, but I bet plenty of people think IP is ugly too, and I bet you wouldn't take the position that IP is a drag on the Greenway just because people think it's ugly, would you?
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That's a stretch. At least with IP you would find people that will like it (like me for instance). But who will you find that will like the garage. You?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
Rifleman, you say "At this point I would auction off the parking spaces for 150K a pop in a 99 year lease and completely fuck the city and the Greenway."

That seems a little self-important, wouldn't you say? I mean, the garage has been there since the 1970s and neither the city nor the Greenway has been particularly "fucked" on account of the garage's presence during the intervening years.

Besides, the garage's impact on the Greenway has more to do with what retailers are on the ground floor than what's on top of them...look at all the Greenway edges - it's the ground floor that counts. Ugly? Maybe, but I bet plenty of people think IP is ugly too, and I bet you wouldn't take the position that IP is a drag on the Greenway just because people think it's ugly, would you?
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I couldn't imagine Boston's skyline without IP. I defintely see your point about ground level. Also one of the Greenway parcels next to IP is the onramp from the tunnel so that doesn't really help. But most of the developments around the Greenway where built to face the bridge. So the Greenway will have to develop on it's own around most of those developments. Now to say that you would rather a garage than a development in this location is INSANE. Both Congress St and Harbor Garage need to be knocked down and redeveloped into something that the city could be proud of. Both of these locations are the key to bringing life and also making the Greenway a destination spot for the city.

Is IP, Harbor Towers, Pru, Hancock, Ugly? Everybody has different taste. But the majority of people in the city would claim that the Garage needs to be knocked down and redeveloped. Thats a fact.

SeamusMcFly said:
Hmmm... build too tall and you block views. Build it shorter and it needs to get fatter, blocking access to Boston Harbor.
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SeamusMcFly sums up the entire BRA brainless thinking process in this quote.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

This could get real interesting now.

The Pru next up to get the last laugh in Tommy?s Town?
For a developer firmly on Mayor Thomas M. Menino?s naughty list, Vornado is managing to do OK.
The Big Apple retail developer has hung onto its stake in a potential Suffolk Downs casino and is now bidding for control of a Hub icon ? the Hancock Tower.

That?s despite nearly weekly rants from the mayor, who is enraged over Vornado?s handling of the stalled Filene?s project, which has left a gaping hole in the center of Downtown Crossing.

Now along comes the Prudential, the deep-pocketed insurance company backing Don Chiofaro?s quixotic attempt to build a pair of twin towers overlooking the new Greenway by the New England Aquarium.

As well all know, Menino has already pretty much buried Chiofaro?s proposal. The flamboyant developer, never a favorite of the mayor?s, has gone on an ill-judged jihad against City Hall.

Menino can?t stop tower sales, but bucking the mayoral will is never a good idea if you need to line up permits over at City Hall.

Of course, the Pru, which is backing Chiofaro?s project, can?t be too happy at this turn of events.

However, chance and fate have put the giant insurer in a very interesting position. For the Pru is also the lead lender behind the newly opened and now bankrupt W Boston, a project Menino?s team at City Hall scrambled to rescue last fall with a $10.5 million loan.

And guess what? The Pru now wants to pull the plug on the slow moving bankruptcy process and simply foreclose on the tower ? a move that could dump the W Boston?s multimillion condos on the market at fire sale prices.

City officials are pushing back hard, arguing Pru?s move could wipe out the $10.5 loan the Department of Neighborhood Development extended to the W Boston?s developer last fall.

Now to lose that money on a luxury condo tower gone bad would be a major political embarrassment to say the least, what with libraries and teachers having faced the budget ax.

Of course, I am sure the Pru?s actions on the W Boston have nothing to do with the ill-fated Chiofaro twin tower plan it is backing ? we are talking pure coincidence here.

But life sure can be funny at times, wouldn?t you say?

http://www.bankerandtradesman.com/b...next-up-to-get-the-last-laugh-in-tommys-town/
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

When you're handling the city's development like a tyrant, you're going to make more enemies than friend and in order to beat a tyrant you band together against him.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Very interesting indeed. I wonder where this will end up.
 
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