[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
My ultimate point being, Chiofaro/Pru aren't being treated different from anyone else in the Downtown Waterfront (or North End Waterfront) districts. For example, the most recent big development to take place in one of those districts - Battery Wharf - just shut up and complied with Chapter 91.
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OK. So you see your little area as sacrosanct while amendments are filed to MHP's everywhere else around you.

KAIROS SHEN IF YOU ARE READING THIS, PLEASE INITIATE A FULL ON PLANNING PROCESS FOR HARBORPARK TO DEVELOP A MODERN ZONING PLAN FOR HARBORPARK THAT ALLOWS FOR A RANGE OF ARCHITECTURAL INTERPRETATIONS, SIGNIFICANT DENSITY OF A MIX OF USES, ELIMINATION OF THE HARBOR TOWERS GARAGE, AND CONSIDERATION OF A FUNCTIONAL GREENWAY. AND DON'T FORGET THE MHP AMENDMENT TO WALK COMPLIANT DEVELOPERS THROUGH STATE APPROVALS. WITHOUT YOUR HELP THE WORLD'S BEST ARCHITECTS ARE HAMSTRUNG AND THE GREENWAY AND HARBORPARK AREA WON'T HAVE THE POPULATION OF USERS DESERVED. THANK YOU.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^tobyjug, Theran made his own decision to purchase permits that were already in place for what he purchased them for...plenty of other developers have made plenty of $$ complying with Chapter 91.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Sicilian said:
OK. So you see your little area as sacrosanct while amendments are filed to MHP's everywhere else around you.

KAIROS SHEN IF YOU ARE READING THIS, PLEASE INITIATE A FULL ON PLANNING PROCESS FOR HARBORPARK TO DEVELOP A MODERN ZONING PLAN FOR HARBORPARK THAT ALLOWS FOR A RANGE OF ARCHITECTURAL INTERPRETATIONS, SIGNIFICANT DENSITY OF A MIX OF USES, ELIMINATION OF THE HARBOR TOWERS GARAGE, AND CONSIDERATION OF A FUNCTIONAL GREENWAY. AND DON'T FORGET THE MHP AMENDMENT TO WALK COMPLIANT DEVELOPERS THROUGH STATE APPROVALS. WITHOUT YOUR HELP THE WORLD'S BEST ARCHITECTS ARE HAMSTRUNG AND THE GREENWAY AND HARBORPARK AREA WON'T HAVE THE POPULATION OF USERS DESERVED. THANK YOU.
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Sicilian I respect all your posts. Your very bright, stop wasting your energy on this guy.

Every project or development parcel in the city has sometype of regulation or zoning law against anything being developed. So bottom line every developer has to meet with the BRA and Mayor to get something done. If they don't like you or if you have nothing to give them they will not do business with you.

With this type of mentality this why the country is going bankrupt. We have had the biggest real estate boom in history. Trillions of dollars made. Just look at downtown area, Seaport district, Fan Pier. Anything in Boston from the private sector has been looted and depressed. An absolute disgrace from the city planning agency.

The only areas that are booming are the areas around the colleges like BU, Northeastern, Harvard.

So now that country is coming off the biggest credit bubble in history do you really see any major developments in the future especially when the politicans are looking to be taken care of on every project being developed by private developers. The money is running out and Its really ashame that these clowns are killing the private sector for their own personal gain.

TheGreenwayGuy is either a Harbor Tower resident or some political favor from the BRA.

If I was a Harbor Tower Resident I would be also skepitcal of Chiofaro's project but I would get involved because no matter what something will be developed in the future by either Chiofaro or some other developer. If Menino's friends get a hold of this parcel he would clear the zoning for a TOMMYS TOWER 2 and would make Chiofaro look like he was Greenway Friendly .

The BRA and the Mayor would be laughing behind close doors about the Harbor Tower Residents, Chiofaro and Shadows. Sorry to say but this is the reality people.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Ned Flaherty said:
Hi briv, I'm not trying to influence public opinion or promote opposition to anything - I'm just sharing my perspective just as others share theirs, albeit with more focus on factual background. I'm certainly very interested in this project and this thread specifically because I care about protecting the Greenway and the future of downtown.
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What would you like to see happen with this parcel? Don't worry about working out specifics, and assume that whatever you propose is financially feasible. What is your best case scenario for a development at this location?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

From a Co-op panel that I attended at NEU, I heard a very interesting statement about the BRA. For some time we wonder exactly how great the interaction between the BRA and the Mayor itself is. Well the manager of the research department came and spoke to us and one thing she said that caught my ears was the jobs she does for the Mayor. Frequently the Mayor would ask the research department to do studies on demographics and projects, which is quite normal. What I found abnormal is that the Mayor also asks the department to write up reports and speeches for him about the studies while dictating exactly what is needed in the report and what is not. Now it becomes quite easy for the Mayor to skew some factoids of the research studies to help those he favor and those he don't. Whether or not it happens, there is a great possibility that the Mayor is holding back information from the public on each and every project.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

KentXie said:
From a Co-op panel that I attended at NEU, I heard a very interesting statement about the BRA. For some time we wonder exactly how great the interaction between the BRA and the Mayor itself is. Well the manager of the research department came and spoke to us and one thing she said that caught my ears was the jobs she does for the Mayor. Frequently the Mayor would ask the research department to do studies on demographics and projects, which is quite normal. What I found abnormal is that the Mayor also asks the department to write up reports and speeches for him about the studies while dictating exactly what is needed in the report and what is not. Now it becomes quite easy for the Mayor to skew some factoids of the research studies to help those he favor and those he don't. Whether or not it happens, there is a great possibility that the Mayor is holding back information from the public on each and every project.
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It seems our Mayor is actually more intelligent than most people think the problem is the mayor?s intelligence is very deceitful to the taxpayers.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Artist's rendition of TheGreenwayGuy:

Shen_Kairos_233x275.jpg
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

haha To be fair, I think we'd all be better off if Kairos was actually running the show. Not a bad guy in real life. The operative word is 'Hamstrung.'
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
It seems our Mayor is actually more intelligent than most people think the problem is the mayor?s intelligence is very deceitful to the taxpayers.
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It's unfortunate that that coop position is unpaid. Else I would have gotten on hands and knees to get that position and find out more about the city's development process.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
^^tobyjug, Theran made his own decision to purchase permits that were already in place for what he purchased them for...plenty of other developers have made plenty of $$ complying with Chapter 91.
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Perhaps. But the example you cited was an economic failure.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^
Was a failure for the buyer, but certainly not for the seller, who was the one that actually permitted the site and complied with Chapter 91.....plus the reason the project was a failure had nothing to do with regulations, it had to do with a slump in the luxury condominium market and the withdrawal of the hotel operator - surely you can't blame the state for that....
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Moving right along from GreenwayGuy's arguments...

And (hopefully) looking beyond Chiofaro...

The Garage site should be redeveloped -- I think that's probably obvious to anyone except Harbor Towers Residents. Looking in Googlemaps it looks like a fairly massive block, which perhaps could be bisected by an alley (removing the Greenway side of the parcel from the tidelands). The waterside half could be a lower profile structure, perhaps with ground floor uses consistent with the pedestrian activity at the Aquarium (i.e. retail and civic). I personally would support the absolute maximum height on the half nearest the Greenway, contingent on substantial residential uses -- the Greenway and that general area of Boston will be dead without constant programming by the Conservancy unless a population of residents exists throughout.

And now the elephant in the room. The most egregious user in the area IMHO is Harbor Towers gated community land. It really privatizes much of the land along the water's edge in ways -- though legal -- are not thoughtful as an urban design. The private swimming pool is nothing less than outrageous. Wouldn't it be great if there was some thought by Harbor Towers residents to getting together and consider selling off some of their rights to the garage, swimming pool and those large tanning mirrors, capitalizing on the substantial value while improving the Greenway and City. These are put forward as ideas simply for consideration - I don't support eminent domain takings for transfer between private uses.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I agree. The Harbor Towers are responsible for the single most deadening edge of the Greenway--quite a feat! The pool area with its grubby fence blocks access to and views of the harbor, creating a total dead zone along the sidewalk. Where's the outrage from all the supposed Greenway lovers?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
^
Hey, at least Filene's and LM will actually get built (either currently or someday in the foreseeable future...leaving CC out of that statement) and create jobs, tax revenue, etc etc....unlike the Harbor Garage site, whose developer has publicly stated that he doesn't have the money to develop. Seamus, your skyline argument isn't consistent with what Chiofaro keeps saying that it's all about the groundplane and activating the site - nothing to do with the skyline....don't take my word for it, read the developer's propaganda about "Activating the Greenway." Haymarket activates the Greenway with little tents and week-old vegatables, how does a skyline relate to what the developer himself keeps focusing on?
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The skyline doesn't and I think I tried to point that out, and didn't make an argument for it. From a skyline standpoint the location makes great sense. From an activation of the greenway standpoint the location is tip top. I don't know what a groundplane is (unless it's when I'm sitting on the runway at Liberty waiting to take off for 2 hours.) My argument with you and your ilk is usually that you can't argue against the mind that has been made up, and is completely irrational but will hide behind "facts" that make you appear rational. The problem..... fuck it I ain't continuing. I have much better things to do like go home.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone I'm outie.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Seamus, I would recommend to you and everybody else to just ignore the guy at this point. It's like trying to argue with a Magic 8 Ball. Worthless, just like this project as long as we have the same clowns running our city (into the ground).
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Boston Globe
High hopes hit the wall
By Brian McGrory
Globe Columnist / December 1, 2010
From the roof of the Harbor Garage, where I happened to be standing in the late morning sun yesterday, I couldn?t help but repeatedly exclaim, ?Oh my God.??

Tweet Be the first to Tweet this!Yahoo! Buzz ShareThis You?d do the same if you could see these views ? the city skyline and the Greenway on one side, Boston Harbor on the other, boats bobbing, planes alighting, breathtaking views from the Zakim Bridge to the arch of Rowes Wharf.

I was here as part of my mission to broker a meaningful peace between a developer, Don Chiofaro, and a mayor, Tom Menino, who can?t stand the sight of each other, their mutual disdain costing this city dearly in terms of jobs, taxes, and aesthetics.

Chiofaro has been pushing to tear down the eyesore that is the garage and build an iconic tower 780 feet high, accompanied by a shorter structure, with an open view of the water. More recently, he has lowered the heights to 615 feet and 470 feet. The city needs the kind of project Chiofaro wants to build.

But officials have repeatedly said that nothing can be built on the property higher than 200 feet and told Chiofaro, in no uncertain terms, publicly and privately, to go pound sand. Who needs construction jobs in this economy?

In the category of news, murmurs have begun emanating from downtown that the irrepressible Chiofaro had quietly, reluctantly prepared a Plan B that would satisfy the city?s demand.

I came to learn that Chiofaro and his partner have, in fact, researched a plan to leave the 80-foot-high garage intact and build 12 stories of condominiums and apartments on top of what?s already there, bringing it to 200 feet.

They have done what was described to me as ?extensive structural analysis?? on the building and determined that, with some work, the foundation and garage can support the extra floors. The plan calls for them to spruce up the garage with some latticework and better retail space on the ground floor, but it would still be the same basic ugly wall running some 270 feet along the Greenway.

I rang up Chiofaro and was told he was out of the country. I got his partner, Ted Oatis, the more diplomatic member of the development duo, who didn?t seem particularly eager to talk about the plans.

After some hemming and hawing, he said, ?If the Boston Redevelopment Authority says clearly and categorically, forget your big project, then we get the message. Two hundred feet means that the garage stays.??

Here?s what Chiofaro and Oatis are not doing. They?re not abandoning hopes of building their larger project. They?re not making petty threats.

?While it would be a disappointment, we?re not politicians, we?re developers,?? Oatis said. ?We have to deal with facts, not fictions.??

As recently as last month, they asked BRA chief John Palmieri for guidance on what larger structures might be acceptable to the city. He offered none, telling them in a letter, ?The BRA does not believe it is an appropriate use of public resources to engage in additional meetings.?? Palmieri?s advice: Proceed with the long, multimillion-dollar proposal process on a development that Menino said won?t get approved. Nice.

I couldn?t reach Palmieri either. He must be conserving his resources.

So up on the roof, Oatis pulled out a glossy artist?s rendering of what the garage would look like with residences on top ? a glowing horseshoe-shaped design with the opening facing the harbor, 300 units in all, but still, that hulking garage hard against the Greenway.

I reached for the sheet and he nervously pulled it away. ?Nobody?s seen this yet,?? he said.

?The big project is the right thing to do, but if the city says to forget about it, we have to deal with reality,?? Oatis added.

Suddenly, in the million-dollar views, I was starting to see lost opportunity. The mayor may stand his ground, Chiofaro may be forced into his Plan B, and what does everyone else get? Too few jobs and one massive wall of concrete.

Brian McGrory is a Globe columnist. His email is mcgrory@globe.com.

? Copyright 2010 Globe Newspaper Company.


http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/12/01/high_hopes_hit_the_wall/
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Yes! Like the rest of us has predicted, we get a nice stumpy, wall that will block the path from the Greenway to the Seaport. From progressive to going backward. Now the public gets a higher wall that doesn't eliminate an eyesore. Enjoy people. We all know the phrase cut the nose to spite the face. Well this is exactly what we get when NIMBYs provide no area to operate. Enjoy your Berlin Wall.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

"As recently as last month, they asked BRA chief John Palmieri for guidance on what larger structures might be acceptable to the city. He offered none, telling them in a letter, ?The BRA does not believe it is an appropriate use of public resources to engage in additional meetings.?? Palmieri?s advice: Proceed with the long, multimillion-dollar proposal process on a development that Menino said won?t get approved. Nice."

I really hate Palmeri. He looks like he crawled right out of Menino @ss.
 
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