[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

nm88 said:
I don't believe you fairly quote me. I did not say they own the view. I said they love the city and expect their living situation to change. And preposterous Johnson? Fine. Believe what you like. I quote verbatim.
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I apologize if I misused your quote.

I have no particular knowledge, interest or like of Chiofaro, but quoting Johnson, an infamously difficult and complicated character does not leave me much wiser. Why does he say 'wrong' and how does that relate to this proposed project? To me, it's not clear.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Im not trying to be rude here but in all reality why does anybody care what the people in the harbor towers think. This is a city and with that comes tall buildings and with that comes shadows and not 360 degree unobstructed views. Why should we protect the crappy brutalist towers views that harm the skyline/street level and try to reject this development which would drastically improve the skyline, remove the garage, and add a window to the harbor. Why should not blocking Joe's view from the 20th floor matter more than adding one of the most well thought out developments Boston has seen in a long time to this area.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I agree with van that this is easily the best of the three iterations.

However, the odds are great it will never be built as rendered, and won't be built anytime soon.

Chiofaro doesn't get unrestricted ownership of the garage until 2022 or so, and he hasn't figured out a way to satisfy the existing property interest of the HT residents in the garage any sooner.

Only deep pocketed property moguls build office towers on spec; so lacking a tenant, the office tower doesn't get built. (I think Ted even alluded to this a while back, saying the project will be built in phases, with no timetable.) And if Chiofaro was really far along in this development, he would name the hotel brand for his hotel component. As hotels aren't built on spec either.

It seems pretty clear they are counting the square footage between the towers under the glass roof as 'open space' to help satisfy much of the 'open space' requirement. However, as I understand the 'open space' requirement, the space must be available to the public 24/7, and access cannot be impeded by gates, fences, barriers, etc. If the only way to cross the 'open space' is on ice skates, then I don't think that qualifies as 'open space'. So the skating rink gets downsized, or tossed.

I find it remarkable that he can chop 70 feet off the top of the chunkier of the two towers, and retain the same 1.3 million square feet. Unless he either altered the footprint, and chewed up even more of the open space, or the cantilevered trapezoids are already gone.

Chiofaro is 68 years old. won't start a poll on which decade the garage finally gets built
out.
+++++++++++

Edited to add link to Herald article, and reaction last night.

http://bostonherald.com/business/re..._chiofaro_s_harbor_plan_met_with_praise_scorn

BBJ article on HT objections.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/r...towers-residents-reject-chiofaro-project.html

Globe article

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...-waterfront/WRfcR8xzSR9bPAo9txmELM/story.html

Oh, the south tower's cladding is not copper or bronze, but terracotta.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Looks neat as an idea. Wouldn't expect the tops to taper in the same direction like that though. Opposing slants maybe. Would frame it better than a continuous slope. Maybe looks too much like horns. Evil Chiofaro?

My only real thought at present based on the new pictures available, because that's all they are. Pretty pictures at this point.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

stellarfun said:
Edited to add link to Herald article, and reaction last night.

http://bostonherald.com/business/re..._chiofaro_s_harbor_plan_met_with_praise_scorn
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"“Would it be truly be open 24/7/365? Is it very hard to imagine a space fully enclosed in the winter being accessible to all at any time of day or night,” they wrote. “What is portrayed today as open space could in fact become largely private and policed, like the lovely but significantly restricted atrium space in (Chiofaro’s) International Place” buildings."

Not many more baldfaced examples of hypocrisy than that, kids...
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

SeamusMcFly said:
Looks neat as an idea. Wouldn't expect the tops to taper in the same direction like that though. Opposing slants maybe. Would frame it better than a continuous slope. Maybe looks too much like horns. Evil Chiofaro?

My only real thought at present based on the new pictures available, because that's all they are. Pretty pictures at this point.
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Unless someone who attended last night's meeting indicates Chiofaro showed a lot more renderings, he is following a familiar pattern.

Iteration 1, the arch was basically rendered as seen from Logan airport. IIRC, there were no renders of how it would look from City Hall or Faneuil Hall, from Columbus Park / North End, or from Rowe's Wharf / IP.

Iteration 2, the big public square, that also used 'Fidelity Park' as part of the square. Renders of lower levels as seen from from Greenway.

Iteration 3, the recreation venues. All grade levels showing beaches, lawns, etc. No buildings.

Iteration 4a, last month, two towers, bases only from front and back (east and west), and featuring multiple renders of the 'arcade' during the seasons.

Iteration 4b, last night. two towers, as seen from Logan airport. As in iteration 1, no other perspective. Both towers changed significantly from 4a, one in terms of cladding, the other in terms of height.

This is the three card monte version of renders.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Equilibria said:
"“Would it be truly be open 24/7/365? Is it very hard to imagine a space fully enclosed in the winter being accessible to all at any time of day or night,” they wrote. “What is portrayed today as open space could in fact become largely private and policed, like the lovely but significantly restricted atrium space in (Chiofaro’s) International Place” buildings."

Not many more baldfaced examples of hypocrisy than that, kids...
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It may be hypocrisy, but Chiofaro has to play by a set of rules that were never applied to them.

The larger point is the requirement that open space be accessible by the public 24/7 Even if there was no winter skating rink, by having a roof and presumably glass sides, the project can readily become a refuge for those seeking shelter from cold and snow. Which is more likely: Chiofaro/condo association will offer hot chocolate to those availing themselves of the 'open space' arcade, or the glass roof and sides get tossed?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The new rendering looks great. Not only do the towers blend in nicely with the skyline, they even manage to fill a relative gap. Great perspective.

The problem is, there is still only the ONE render: an aerial shot from over East Boston. How many people will ever see from that perspective?

Have you ever seen the skyline from Fan pier? The harbor towers REALLY stick out.

I will hold judgment until I see a few more renderings.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro and critics alike seem to be fetishizing this view of waterfront access and views from the Greenway. I think we'd all be better served by acknowledging this is a fairly silly fetish. The Greenway is NOT a waterfront stroll (that's what the haborwalk is for). In essence the footprint of the existing garage is fine. The key issues are that it's ugly and an awful utilization of prime waterfront space. To me the footprint and matter of height matters a lot less than whether the Greenway side helps the Greenway and the waterfront side helps the waterfront. Do we really need this Dubaiesque cheesiness in some corporate atrium? To me this is all just one big distraction.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

stellarfun said:
I agree with van that this is easily the best of the three iterations.

However, the odds are great it will never be built as rendered, and won't be built anytime soon.

Chiofaro doesn't get unrestricted ownership of the garage until 2022 or so, and he hasn't figured out a way to satisfy the existing property interest of the HT residents in the garage any sooner.

Only deep pocketed property moguls build office towers on spec; so lacking a tenant, the office tower doesn't get built.
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Do you really believe Chiofaro will struggle to find a commercial tenant for this site?
This Development is located on the best prime real estate in the city.
I think this looks like a MASTERPIECE.
*The project is directly located off the Blue-Line for Instant Transit
*I would be surprised if he even has to market the condos.

Also looking at the renderings, I don't see the height has anything major. Just a couple of unique buildings which blend in with a more 21century Architecture.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

SeamusMcFly said:
Looks neat as an idea. Wouldn't expect the tops to taper in the same direction like that though. Opposing slants maybe. Would frame it better than a continuous slope.
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I like that the tops of the building taper in the same direction because they draw your eye to the Custom House tower.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Not sure if this one has been posted here.

Slide9.jpg


And moving these up as a reminder.

bostoneophyte said:
Here are the pretty pictures of the ground level interaction:

Slide3.jpg


Slide7.jpg


Slide5.jpg


Slide13.jpg


Slide12.jpg


Slide11.jpg
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

stellarfun said:
Which is more likely: Chiofaro/condo association will offer hot chocolate to those availing themselves of the 'open space' arcade, or the glass roof and sides get tossed?
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Or that the city quietly allows Chiofaro to have private security patrol the atrium and close the doors at 10pm?

Unless you're concerned with open access for the homeless (and many people very righteously are), does this really bother anyone? Honestly, Boston has a lot of plazas, including the big one right next door to these buildings. I'd rather have a unique semi-public space than a ubiquitous public one.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

This looks perfect. Those are A+ designs that fit perfectly into the skyline. They are unobtrusive as well.

I'm sorry, but if someone really thinks "they could better because this is a valuable waterfront location", please get your CAD and Photoshop and out show us how.

Any and all criticisms from the expected neighborhood were 100% expected to the point that they will be ignored.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'm sorry, but if someone really thinks "they could better because this is a valuable waterfront location", please get your CAD and Photoshop and out show us how.
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And out themselves as armchair architects? No way!

Any and all criticisms from the expected neighborhood were 100% expected to the point that they will be ignored.
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Hopefully, Walsh's earlier comment asking "how tall can we go?" is signalling which way he's going to lean on this. I wouldn't be surprised if there's the usual song and dance ending in the height being cut down a bit, but otherwise, I think there's reason for positivity.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

One thing I am confused by - the way I see it, the view the towers have is out toward the harbor (makes sense given the name). These towers would be next door, blocking what? A view of Chelsea?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

A few questions come to mind.....

12 pages???

When did this site get so "sensitive"? It seem to have been able to handle the brutality of a "hulking" garage for 4 or 5 decades. Is that something a sensitive site can do?

The fear of it setting a precedent for other sites close on the harbors edge? How many more are there really? Cap'n Hook? The North End and East Boston waterfront sites ain't going tall. So is this a fear of nothing? Pantaphobia running amok in the Harbor Towers?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

MBTAddict said:
One thing I am confused by - the way I see it, the view the towers have is out toward the harbor (makes sense given the name). These towers would be next door, blocking what? A view of Chelsea?
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There's this hot chick over in 17B in Chelsea. Walks around with nothing on, and the shades up, almost all the time.

The Tobin is quite majestic as well.....
 
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