Arsenal Yards | Arsenal Mall Redevelopment | Watertown

Blah blah blah. I am. Holiday weekend can't get here soon enough.
Bars make money on booze so much easier than they do on food. But, there is a helluva lot of profit in both.
Yes, I've worked in food service, and yes I know the mark ups, which are ridiculous in this city.
I get keeping up with the Joneses.
I just wish the artificial inflation of everything by said Joneses would calm down.

There is plenty wrong with it. But, there is also plenty right with it.

Not old enough to be a grumpy old man yet, just a curmudgeon.
 
Blah blah blah. I am. Holiday weekend can't get here soon enough.
Bars make money on booze so much easier than they do on food. But, there is a helluva lot of profit in both.
Yes, I've worked in food service, and yes I know the mark ups, which are ridiculous in this city.
I get keeping up with the Joneses.
I just wish the artificial inflation of everything by said Joneses would calm down.

There is plenty wrong with it. But, there is also plenty right with it.

Not old enough to be a grumpy old man yet, just a curmudgeon.

Happy 4th, Seamus!

You'll be happy to know I'm heading off to my local Costco for a couple of their awesome hotdogs (heavy on the onions) right now for lunch. :)
 
I hear what you are saying, and evidently, it's something that sticks in your craw.

That being said, no one in the article or here was saying outlaw anything non-craft. Just that there are young techies who want to live near A (singular, not necessarily plural, even) craft bar or restaurant.

If that is something to set you off so much, then God Bless.

Nope. You read A as meaning there would be one. That's a misread onyour part I believe from the intention of the quote. All young people want to live near one, but that would take many based on a spread out population or what one might consider "near".

More upset at a concept than anything you said or wrote, or even what is planned. All in all I like the idea of building up everything in metro instead of spreading it out.

Whether it directly served this area or not, I would love the A line existing again (or having never been shut down) if nothing more than to get rid of the "why is there a B, C, D, & E if there is no A?" questions.

My concept is young techies and hipsters walk into a bar with a "dive bar motif" as I have coined it, ordering a 12 dollar knob creek manhatten (yes I stood next to one ordering that and he even asked for it dirty) and then calling the place a good dive with a great vibe or whatever. It's selling someone shinola, telling them its shit, and charging them for.... shinola. I have a problem with that because I think it creates other problems.

Dive bar guy gets pushed out 10-15 years ago because of rising neighborhood costs, gets replaced by hip swanky night club/bar, which gets turned into something else probably another swank joint, only to get turned back into a "dive", because people want that speak easy look and vibe yet want to feel safe. I get it, I just don't like it.

Anywho, no more out of me on this. It'll get moved to a general discussion somewhere anyways.
 
Happy 4th, Seamus!

You'll be happy to know I'm heading off to my local Costco for a couple of their awesome hotdogs (heavy on the onions) right now for lunch. :)

Back atcha. Grabbed mine at BJ's. But, my keg of Miller Lite has gone warm because my kegerator broke this week.

Maybe that's why I'm grumpy.
 
Hey now, even 5 Guys can sell a burger under 8 bucks.

Great burger at 5 Guys.

Even money there will be one in that neighborhood.

A truly vibrant area will have low-end, middle and high-end. Places that have either too many snobs or too many socio-economic pitchfork carriers become stale. Melting pots are the best. That's why a place like Central Square works.
 
With all the construction in Cambridge and the innovation district on the waterfront going on, is there room in the near term for another "technology / innovation" center? Will companies want to be in "dreaded" Watertown? Or is this something that would be occupied many years out, where the other above-mentioned projects will have been completed?

Note: I am not slamming Watertown and I think there isn't enough inexpensive space for startups in the Boston area - just trying to provoke some convo on the topic.
 
I think you'd have to build an awful lot to start worrying about overbuilding in a city with one of the highest rental costs in the country. I've never seen projections for commercial space, but the Joint Center for Housing Study recently put out a report that the region needs something around 100,000 new units a year for 10 years to even put a dent in housing prices. This is a total guess, but I'd imagine the commercial rental market would be at least around the same number.
 
I think it was the waltham watch factory I was just reading about, or another rehab somewhere thereabouts. Basically they wanted to rent to a single tenant, which failed. Then they divided the space up and its been very sucessful at attracting a diverse mix of startups, design firms, etc. If it worked in waltham I see no reason a similar plan wouldn't work here. Its that "brick and beam" asthetic every young blood firm wants to be housed in, which you aren't getting in new construction or afford in the fort point.
 
In the middle of fitting out an existing brick and beam setup to a new bio firm (new to the area anyways) coming to Kendall.

Agree, the "younger" firms love that vibe. In most cases they are keeping open to structure layouts to see the old vaulted structure.
 
I agree that Boston needs way more housing, office and lab space - one counterpoint is the Global Crossing data center turned biotech center that is still vacant in Allston on the Pike.

That said, I bet this space would fill up fast.
 
Great vision - transit would be the limiting factor here. Anyone think a Mattapan-like trolley service could link the Arsenal with Alewife or Porter quite easily using the Watertown Branch? It looks like at least one of the dealerships that's eating the ROW has recently shuttered...
 
Great vision - transit would be the limiting factor here. Anyone think a Mattapan-like trolley service could link the Arsenal with Alewife or Porter quite easily using the Watertown Branch? It looks like at least one of the dealerships that's eating the ROW has recently shuttered...

Apparently the city of Watertown is trying to piece the RoW back together parcel by parcel. If they can get it back together at least as far as School Street that would be a great future extension of the Union Square GLX. Once it gets up to Porter, which it likely will within 10 years of Union getting done, string it down to Watertown. Plunk stops at Danehy near Sherman Street, Fresh Pond off of the Parkway, Huron Ave or Mount Auburn Street, East Watertown at Arlington Street and Arsenal at School Street and Arsenal Street. Eventually bring it to Watertown Square and end it at Watertown Yard.

Something like this:

Flib4tw.png


(Sorry for the transit tangent...)

I actually still think that this Arsenal development can be successful in spite of the current lack of comprehensive transit, unfortunately it just means more traffic/garages around the Arsenal campus.
 
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From behind the paywall:

"Athenahealth plan would reinvent Arsenal site"

By Robert Weisman | GLOBE STAFF SEPTEMBER 04, 2013

WATERTOWN — The owner of a 29-acre cluster of brick buildings that stored gunpowder in the 1830s, built cannons for World War I, and housed an Army materials lab in the 1950s, wants to reinvent the site as a 21st-century hub where innovators come to work and play.

Fast-growing health care software maker athenahealth Inc., which bought the Arsenal on the Charles for $168.5 million, has invited Governor Deval Patrick and other state and local officials to the nearly 200-year-old campus Wednesday to unveil a plan to transform it into New England’s answer to Silicon Valley’s signature technology office parks such as the Googleplex.

The company envisions about 150,000 square feet of new office space for athenahealth and other businesses, a glass-enclosed atrium expanding the building that houses the New Repertory Theatre to create more space for artists and performers, walking and bike paths connecting the campus to the nearby Charles River, outdoor meeting spaces, an Arsenal museum, landscaped parks, a farmers market, a beer garden, new restaurants, and “accelerator” space that athenahealth would set up to incubate smaller health information start-ups.

“I want good chefs, good beer, and entrepreneurs,” said athenahealth’s chief executive Jonathan Bush. “Rather than a sealed-off campus, we’re going to open the Arsenal up to the community as a public resource. And we’d like to fit it into the historic context. We want to foment the next industrial revolution by bringing openness into health care.”

The plan will require zoning changes and other approvals from the town of Watertown to add height to existing structures and build walkways between some buildings.

It also may require state approval to alter historic structures.

“Obviously, these are historic buildings, and they’ll have to work through the approvals for their designs,” said state housing and economic development secretary Greg Bialecki.

Bush recently teamed up with Boston developer Boylston Properties and Boston retail management firm Wilder Cos. to buy three adjacent properties, including the 225,000-square-foot Arsenal Mall, with plans to develop housing and upscale shopping for young professionals. While that is a separate project from athenahealth’s plans for the Arsenal on the Charles, Bush and his associates say the two developments could advance in tandem as the Boston area’s high-tech and medical technology sectors spread outward from Cambridge’s Kendall Square.

But whether a new innovation cluster can sprout in a scruffy section of Watertown remains an open question.

At the least, planned improvements to the Arsenal office park could raise athenahealth’s profile for prospective employees and accommodate the company’s anticipated expansion.

Athenahealth is a leading vendor of electronic health record services to doctors and other medical professionals.

In June, the state Economic Assistance Coordinating Council granted athenahealth $9.5 million in tax credits in exchange for a promise to add 1,900 jobs over the coming decade at the Arsenal.

The company currently has more than 1,100 employees at its headquarters and research center on the site.

As it expands, athenahealth will gradually take over space now leased at the Arsenal by 20 other tenants, ranging from Netwatch Systems to Envivo Pharmaceuticals to Harvard Business School Publishing.

Bialecki said state officials view the move as part of a potential doubling of the Massachusetts innovation economy over the coming decade, with business activity “getting distributed around Greater Boston” to areas such as Watertown, Quincy Center, and Assembly Square in Somerville.

Athenahealth hopes to break ground within nine months, but estimates it could take five years to complete all the work. The company’s executive offices would move to an expanded structure on top of the complex’s current parking garage that would also include business development offices, an executive briefing center, and a roof garden.

A second parking garage would be built on the edge of the campus, allowing athenahealth to remove asphalt parking lots around the Arsenal to create more parks, gardens, and green spaces.

In addition, a new filtering system will re-create channels known as swales throughout the campus, removing impurities from storm water before it drains into the river.

“We want to bring the river to Watertown, and bring Watertown to the river,” said landscape architect Glen Valentine, senior associate at Stephen Stimson Associates in Cambridge.

Valentine said the project’s planners hope to plant native shrubs such as red twig dogwoods and attract wildlife such as turtles, butterflies, hawks, and red-wing blackbirds.

The new museum, along with decorative cannons around the complex, will highlight the Arsenal’s storied past.

“There are so many people in this town who have a family history with the Arsenal,” said Carolyn Rickman, an athenahealth vice president who is one of the project’s leaders.

Originally located in Charlestown, the Arsenal was moved to Watertown in 1816 as military leaders sought a site physically protected from seaborne attack, said historian Robert Damon, the Wellesley Historical Society executive director who is consulting with athenahealth on the project.

Damon said the buildings on the parcel originally warehoused muskets, cannonballs, and gunpowder, but began manufacturing cannons and the carriages that held them in the 1830s.

During World War I, when it built larger cannons, the Arsenal became a pioneer in metallurgical technology — such as gauging the strength of metals — a role it expanded after World War II as an Army materials research center. The Army closed the Arsenal in 1986.

“We hear a lot about innovation hubs these days. That spirit of innovation has been here for a long time,” Damon said.

In preparing for the makeover, Somerville architect Charles Rose said he is aiming for a post-industrial feel that can attract the “hacker chic” crowd.

Rose said he visited other distinctive information technology campuses, including Google’s and Apple’s. While those Silicon Valley sites have quirky energy, Rose said, he concluded they were too “inwardly focused campuses impermeable” to outsiders.

By contrast, Rose said, “athena’s vision is an incredibly civic-minded one. We’re creating a campus that doesn’t pretend to be part of the city. It is part of the city.”
 
Apparently the city of Watertown is trying to piece the RoW back together parcel by parcel. If they can get it back together at least as far as School Street that would be a great future extension of the Union Square GLX. Once it gets up to Porter, which it likely will within 10 years of Union getting done, string it down to Watertown. Plunk stops at Danehy near Sherman Street, Fresh Pond off of the Parkway, Huron Ave or Mount Auburn Street, East Watertown at Arlington Street and Arsenal at School Street and Arsenal Street. Eventually bring it to Watertown Square and end it at Watertown Yard.

Something like this:

Flib4tw.png


(Sorry for the transit tangent...)

I actually still think that this can be successful in spite of the current lack of comprehensive transit, unfortunately it just means more traffic/garages around the Arsenal campus.

That ROW in West Cambridge looks like a nightmare to start up plus add in Cambridge nimby's. You are going to need some serious political will in Watertown, Cambridge, MBTA and DOT. As a Porter Sq. resident, I am all for it. (Also would be great if Union Sq-Porter Sq. GLX can be like a phase 4 continuation of the current work.
 
That ROW in West Cambridge looks like a nightmare to start up plus add in Cambridge nimby's. You are going to need some serious political will in Watertown, Cambridge, MBTA and DOT. As a Porter Sq. resident, I am all for it. (Also would be great if Union Sq-Porter Sq. GLX can be like a phase 4 continuation of the current work.

It's actually intact all through Cambridge. You could also elevate it through the shopping center lot and across the parkway if you needed to. It's fully grade separated after the Parkway grade-crossing along the Pond trail and points south (just the Water Treatment Plan driveway is in the way). This would have to be a long-term goal with a lot of political groundwork from Watertown and Cambridge.
 
Apparently the city of Watertown is trying to piece the RoW back together parcel by parcel. If they can get it back together at least as far as School Street that would be a great future extension of the Union Square GLX. Once it gets up to Porter, which it likely will within 10 years of Union getting done, string it down to Watertown. Plunk stops at Danehy near Sherman Street, Fresh Pond off of the Parkway, Huron Ave or Mount Auburn Street, East Watertown at Arlington Street and Arsenal at School Street and Arsenal Street. Eventually bring it to Watertown Square and end it at Watertown Yard.

Something like this:

Flib4tw.png


(Sorry for the transit tangent...)

I actually still think that this Arsenal development can be successful in spite of the current lack of comprehensive transit, unfortunately it just means more traffic/garages around the Arsenal campus.

Looks like a great crosstown system connecting Watertown and Somerville. How serious is this plan? This is the first time I heard of it.
 

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