Arsenal Yards | Arsenal Mall Redevelopment | Watertown

[Arlington]

On Soldiers Field Road, there may be low-clearance issues with a pedestrian bridge to Herter Park. Staying on the Cambridge side, via Greenough Blvd. or Coolidge Ave, would work better.

If it saves many tens of millions on ROW acquisition to use the DCR lands on one side of the river or the other, they'll be able to replace a few pedestrian bridges (or heck, integrate them into stations or offer them as payoffs to locals)

 

[Matthew]

The 70 sucking is something that can be fixed (and probably ought to already, considering the usage).

 

[shmessy]

Originally Posted by shmessy

"These are people who want to work and live near a restaurant that grows its own food, a bar that makes its own beer.”

He's spot on. The days of segregating office communities from living communities (and both of them from shopping communities) has only resulted in the greater need for automobiles and highways.
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I am just so very much waiting for the bolded text to no longer be spot on......
I get it.... to a point...... stop over saturating it. Stop making it seem like anything less would be uncivilized. Yes, I stole that from a deodorant commercial.....

C'mon, Seamus. Let's read that quote again carefully:

He said A restaurant and A bar - - not EVERY restaurant and EVERY bar.

There's no over-saturation being proposed - - just the ability to walk to one.

 

[kz1000ps]

Agree with shmessy re: Seamus' comments. Maybe the walk-to-a-local-whatever thing is getting the lion's share of attention right now (as well as being attached to some moralistic grandstanding) but the percentage of areas that actually achieve this is still puny. Sorry Seamus, but it's going to be a while before this storm passes.

I wonder if they will reopen the tunnel system that runs around the complex. True story from when I briefly worked at home depot, there was a crack in a section of the floor and one of the other guys was chiping it out with a crowbar when swoosh, through it went. Needless to say we were more careful with the forklifts after that.

I do wonder how loosing that HD and some of the other retailers around there will effect the area. As much of a shithole as the arsenal mall is, the old navy and gap was pretty handy to have right there. I wonder if they are just going to reshuffle the stores around, or kick them all out. Its also suprizing simon sold, considering they just did a makeover of the place and attracted some new food options

Maybe Simon realized the light upgrades they got are about as good as the mall will get and now's the time to wash their hands of the place? I dunno. But about the tunnels -- I wanna hear more! What buildings do they connect to? I worked at the Aeropostale years back there and had no idea there was a subterranean network there, although it's not surprising given the complex's history.

And it will be interesting to see which, if any, tenants stay. Old Navy always looked depressingly empty although the Gap and Home Depot seem to be doing decent business.

 

[Ron Newman]

Aren't there plenty of parking lots to build on before we even think about evicting Home Depot (a busy and well-used store)?

 

[Shepard]

That's true Ron not to mention the completely underused garage that could probably fulfill the lions share of the conplex's parking needs

 

[Equilibria]

I'm just impressed that the Globe made it through the whole article without mentioning that this is where the shootout happened back in April.

As much as the Birmingham Parkway median looks too perfect for a rail reservation, I agree that the best way to bring transit to this site is through reopening the Faneuil site with DMU-level service (15-minute peak headways). Long term, the Watertown Branch has a dedicated ROW up to this point, so a GL extension from Porter/Union Sq. could theoretically run alongside the Watertown Greenway as far as Arsenal, if not the rest of the way to Watertown Sq.

I would be careful about saying that "everyone wants" craft beers and organic eateries and urban mixed-use density in any context other than marketing patter. Believing that "all the young professionals want this" is how we got auto-centric suburbs in the first place. "All the young people" are unlikely to want the same thing.

 

[davem]

Aren't there plenty of parking lots to build on before we even think about evicting Home Depot (a busy and well-used store)?

I would rather see the home depot build a new store on one of the lots, the building its in has some great old bones and would be better used as lofts or something similar, especially if it ment activting the streetwall along arsenal st. The drop celing in there hides some awesome supports, dormers, and skylights. The original crane is still hanging next door in golftown too. That is also the worst laid out home depot I've ever been in, and they have NO room in receiving.

While the HD would be a loss, you can get everything in there right around the area. There is a lumber yard on Arlington St, hw foot (paint) mahoneys (gardening) and granite city (electric) and an appliance place are all on western ave in brighton, target has most of the cheap shelving/storage/cleaning shit, and I'm pretty sure there is a plumbing place around there too

Regarding old bones, that parking garage has some really cool mushroom columns and flat floor plates, I could see it being converted to residential/commercial too, with a new, purpose built garage being put up somewhere else, preferably more centrally located.

As for the tunels, I don't know much. I assume they were for steam and utilities, im not sure how extensive the network is. There is a pretty obvious bulkhead for them facing the river along n beacon st, but it appears to be sealed up well. I poked around the utility corridors in the mall and had no sucess finding a way in


Edit: regarding the HD though, they aren't going to leave without a fight. Its neck and neck with south bay for the top store for the entire region. Their summer and back to school sales top a mil a day without breaking a sweat. There was also talk that a lot of the money that was spent to fight lowes moving onto the site where new balance is building came indirectly from HD, although I have no evidence for that. So, I'm pretty sure that even if they leave that building (which I hope they will), they are not leaving the immediate area.

 

[Arlington]

I don't see why Home Depot needs to leave (nor did they say they were kicking them out). Really, its the whole rest of the Arsenal Mall that's not working at its full potential. Slip a Whole Foods in there and a yuppy tower, and you're good to go.

 

[shmessy]

I would be careful about saying that "everyone wants" craft beers and organic eateries and urban mixed-use density in any context other than marketing patter. Believing that "all the young professionals want this" is how we got auto-centric suburbs in the first place. "All the young people" are unlikely to want the same thing.

Absolutely no one here, nor the guy in the article, said anything remotely close to that.

The guy in the article said that the young people who would move to such a place are the types who want to be able to have A bar or A restaurant that is described.

He didn't say "every young person" and he didn't say that they wanted "all" their bars and restaurants to be home crafters or farmed. He's obviously talking about a market segment. I'm not sure why that is being misinterpreted.

 

[Equilibria]

Absolutely no one here, nor the guy in the article, said anything remotely close to that.

The guy in the article said that the young people who would move to such a place are the types who want to be able to have A bar or A restaurant that is described.

He didn't say "every young person" and he didn't say that they wanted "all" their bars and restaurants to be home crafters or farmed. He's obviously talking about a market segment. I'm not sure why that is being misinterpreted.

Here's the quote:

“We have work but we couldn’t get live and play into the Arsenal on the Charles. Nobody in this generation wants to schlep for an hour and a half on the Mass. Pike to a little patch of land.

“This is a generation of people who are just coming out of their dorm rooms. That’s who we’re hiring. These are people who want to work and live near a restaurant that grows its own food, a bar that makes its own beer.”

Note the prominent use of the phrase "nobody in this generation." I don't think his meaning could be much clearer than that.

 

[crash575]

It's exciting to hear about the potential for development. Way better than the Walmart that was proposed in the last year or two for a site down the road.

I don't think the Home Depot will be going leaving anytime soon. They recently filed a zoning relief petition for an expansion.

If you're into hitory there is a ton of information on the Arsenal. When the bulk of the site was released by the Army part of the agreement was to photograph and record the site. The Library of Congress has a report and there are hundreds of high res photos including those of the landscaping designed by the Olmstead Brothers.

 

[DominusNovus]

While the HD would be a loss, you can get everything in there right around the area. There is a lumber yard on Arlington St, hw foot (paint) mahoneys (gardening) and granite city (electric) and an appliance place are all on western ave in brighton, target has most of the cheap shelving/storage/cleaning shit, and I'm pretty sure there is a plumbing place around there too

The entire reason Home Depot (and most other big box retailers) exists is so that people don't have to go to four different stores for their needs.

 

[shmessy]

Here's the quote:

“We have work but we couldn’t get live and play into the Arsenal on the Charles. Nobody in this generation wants to schlep for an hour and a half on the Mass. Pike to a little patch of land.

“This is a generation of people who are just coming out of their dorm rooms. That’s who we’re hiring. These are people who want to work and live near a restaurant that grows its own food, a bar that makes its own beer.”

Note the prominent use of the phrase "nobody in this generation." I don't think his meaning could be much clearer than that.

Ugh. Read the rest of the sentence that you refer to.

The "nobody in this generation wants...." refers to the COMMUTE on the Mass Pike - - and only that. You, somehow, scotch taped that to the discussion of the bars and restaurants - - to which he uses the word "A" - - not "EVERY".

So yes, he generalizes that no one of this generation wants to DRIVE 1.5 hours to a little patch of land. Congrats - - that's not what we were talking about. This discussion was about the types of restaurants and bars - - not the commute.

At no point does he say that the entire generation wants NOTHING BUT homecraft. He says that the type of people who ARE BEING HIRED by AthenaHealth (certainly not indicative of an entire generation, merely a subset) prefers to have A homecraft bar and restaurant in their neighborhood. That does not mean they will bar having any Dunkin Donuts or Applebees.

 

[DominusNovus]

The "nobody in this generation wants...." refers to the COMMUTE on the Mass Pike - - and only that. You, somehow, scotch taped that to the discussion of the bars and restaurants - - to which he uses the word "A" - - not "EVERY".

The 'a' is the article in front of 'generation,' correct? Which would indicate that the discussion is based on the generation as a whole, correct?

 

[shmessy]

The 'a' is the article in front of 'generation,' correct? Which would indicate that the discussion is based on the generation as a whole, correct?

No. The "A" being referred to is in front of the word "restaurant" and another "A" is in front of the word "bar". The "A" you refer to describes them coming out of dorms (which is mostly true - - they are the young generation)

See above post.

I said, yes, he is generalizing about the SUBSET of the generation that he is HIRING. He is not saying there he'll prevent any Dunkin Donuts, just that the type of people he is hiring want A homecraft in the neighborhood - - not "only have homecraft in the neighborhood'.

Perhaps some people read that article with preconceived agendas. I got nothing from it that meant he intends the area to be "fern bar alley" - - just that it has some alternatives mixed in that offers the young techie A homecraft bar and A homecraft restaurant. Not EVERY.

Post #14 alleged that anything other than a homecraft was being demonized by Bush ("...stop over saturating it. Stop making it seem like anything less would be uncivilized...") I read nothing of the sort. If others do, that's their prerogative.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

I stand by what I said.
You read what you wanted.
I'll continue to stand by it.

I had a wonderful conversation the other day (read as sarcasm), with a fellow at the bar. He was with a lady friend who worked at one of the new places in the Fort Point area. I proceeded to let he know how terrible the place was (in as nice a way as I could after 8 or 9 beers). The clientele its being marketed to is just not there in sufficient numbers. Anyways the conversation with this fellow was about my feeling that I should be able to pay no more than 8 bucks for a burger at a bar (a price I consider high, but am willing to pay), whilst he thought there to be no issue with a 12 buck or more burger. I don't care how many vowels are in the name of the bread or cheese, it's a burger. Now my comment about 8 bucks wa smet with "c'mon, where in Boston can you get that?" And, there in lies the problem. This mentality is now accepted.

There are plenty of places to get that 8 dollar (or less) burger in town, but why would you go there?

Whatever moralistic soap box you might think is under my feet, no I'm just that tall.

It's obnoxious, and shouldn't be needed to attract whatever people, but it is accepted now that without this, a place is not young or hip.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Sorry Seamus, but it's going to be a while before this storm passes.
.

I know. But, in the meantime I will still bitch and moan about douchebaggery and whatnot.

I like craft beer. I also like Miller Lite.
I could give a rats ass where the food was grown if it tastes good. I also grow my own food.

If it costs me 10-20% more because it's "organic" or "grown local" or on the roof. I don't want it. As Jim Gaffigan put it "organic is a word that apparently means, costs twice as much", and I have no idea if these people know a thing about growing or processing food to risk spending extra cash on it. Fads. Catchy slogans. Bright lights.

 

[fattony]

Whatever moralistic soap box you might think is under my feet, no I'm just that tall.

It's obnoxious, and shouldn't be needed to attract whatever people, but it is accepted now that without this, a place is not young or hip.

You are on a bit of a soapbox, and a grumpy old man one at that. There is nothing wrong with promoting the latest trends to make the most of your development plans. It takes a lot of $8 burgers to keep the lights on in Fort Point (or just anywhere in the Boston Metro).

 

[shmessy]

I stand by what I said.
You read what you wanted.
I'll continue to stand by it.

I had a wonderful conversation the other day (read as sarcasm), with a fellow at the bar. He was with a lady friend who worked at one of the new places in the Fort Point area. I proceeded to let he know how terrible the place was (in as nice a way as I could after 8 or 9 beers). The clientele its being marketed to is just not there in sufficient numbers. Anyways the conversation with this fellow was about my feeling that I should be able to pay no more than 8 bucks for a burger at a bar (a price I consider high, but am willing to pay), whilst he thought there to be no issue with a 12 buck or more burger. I don't care how many vowels are in the name of the bread or cheese, it's a burger. Now my comment about 8 bucks wa smet with "c'mon, where in Boston can you get that?" And, there in lies the problem. This mentality is now accepted.

There are plenty of places to get that 8 dollar (or less) burger in town, but why would you go there?

Whatever moralistic soap box you might think is under my feet, no I'm just that tall.

It's obnoxious, and shouldn't be needed to attract whatever people, but it is accepted now that without this, a place is not young or hip.

I hear what you are saying, and evidently, it's something that sticks in your craw.

That being said, no one in the article (or here) was saying anything about outlawing non-craft places. Just that there are young techies who want to live near A (singular, not necessarily plural, even) craft bar or restaurant. It's there in black and white in and in plain English.

If that is something to set you off so much, then God Bless.