Assembly Square Infill and Small Developments | Somerville

Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

Mayor Joe is smart to have seen the writing on the wall for about a year now. He's been teasing this announcement for months, putting a best face forward. Yes, IKEA was a big reason the T stop was approved and Assembly Row broke ground. Ironically, the T and the Row will now be the draw for additional investment. No biggie. Just 15 years lost and a few million in permitting fees gained. There will be something in that space after another 15.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

from my "what's in it for me?" perspective, I would have LOVED a T-accessible IKEA. This is very disappointing.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

Ikea could still come back if they wanted to, I said a long time ago I would have preferred if they built their store over the railroad junction just to the east of the site, which they still could in the future as air rights. It probably wouldn't be all that much more expensive either since their stores seem to sit on stilts over parking and other things already anyway.

Edit:
I also really like where they are going with the renderings in the Globe article. The architecture is diverse in both height and style, and the mixed use is very apparent. Let's just hope it actually turns out that way instead of being a sterile office park...
 
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Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

The New Haven Ikea will be connected to the nearby Train station and surround Transit Network , The Elizabeth Ikea is getting either a Light Metro or Heavy Rail line down the road and the Brooklyn Ikea is connected into the Bus and Ferry network. The Philly Ikea is getting light Rail and streetcars along with Ferry stops in the future...

I think Brooklyn is unique in the the size and transit-dependence of its market, and yet even there IKEA *still* did not put their store directly on the subway system. None of these are as close to their rail transit (not even New Haven, which isn't transit like the NYC or MBTA subway) as Assembly Square would have been. "Always a shuttle ride away" seems to work OK.

But to all those locals hurt by IKEA's exit, it isn't personal, it is just that being *that close*to transit just isn't needed for IKEA's business model. How do we know? IKEA tells us that being no closer than *Stoughton* is sufficient, and we must assume they've done the math and have decided the needed a Brooklyn but don't need an Assembly Square.

Note also that in 1997, when IKEA bought the lot, the Central Artery cut the North suburbs off from Stoughton (then also in planning). In 1997 given that the artery was impassible, if you were IKEA, you'd have concluded that you needed a "South" (serving Boston,the Cape and Providence) and a "North" store (at Assembly Square serving Boston, Maine and, more tenuously, NH/VT).

Six years later, starting in 2003, with the Big Dig opening, getting to Stoughton (which opened in 2005) has been less trouble (especially during "shopping" times) thereby increasing Stoughton's effectiveness, and diminishing the need for Assembly Square.

Since 2005, IKEA has seen the ZIP codes of its customers and is satisfied it is getting sufficient share-of-wallet from the North-suburban and student-core that a new store at Assembly Square isn't worth it. They're not dumb, or anti-transit, or trying to alienate IKEA-lovers, they just know that they don't *need* to spend the money on you and me to get us to spend money with them.

Further we know that a developer with transit-dependent uses is going to pay transit-inflated prices to buy IKEA out...value that IKEA would have foregone had they built their store there.

10 years from now, having sold the Assembly Square parcel, they can always "buy back in" to the Northern metro area at some place like Anderson Woburn (if transit were valued) or along 495 between Lowell and Amesbury to tap Maine and New Hampshire, or if it really turns into a store for Northern New England probably someplace in tax-free NH like Nashua, Salem or Seabrook.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

And the Stoughton Ikea will get the state dumping millions into widening 24 to declog the horrible backups at that exit every single weekend.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately it's just far enough away from Stoughton CR station on one side and BAT's Ashmont-Brockton bus on the other side to be in a permanent transit cavity.

F-Line -- I know you have a fixation with rail -- but I'm willing to bet that less than 1% of deliveries of purchases made at IKEA in the US have any connection to rail.

Outside of the the food and small stuff that you put in one of their bags -- most of the IKEA sq. ft. are devoted to heavy and bulky items such as furniture that needs wheels to move very far. As a result, if someone arrives by rail transit, a bus, bike, taxi, and even often if they arrive by car you mostly need a truck to haul the purchases home.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

Ikea could still come back if they wanted to, I said a long time ago I would have preferred if they built their store over the railroad junction just to the east of the site, which they still could in the future as air rights. It probably wouldn't be all that much more expensive either since their stores seem to sit on stilts over parking and other things already anyway.

Edit:
I also really like where they are going with the renderings in the Globe article. The architecture is diverse in both height and style, and the mixed use is very apparent. Let's just hope it actually turns out that way instead of being a sterile office park...

Davem -- Ikea seems to be in a general holding pattern if not retrenching in the US -- no new stores are planned for the next two years at the minimum and only a few have been built in the past few years. The Ikea big boom period was the early 2000's.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

As a result, if someone arrives by rail transit, a bus, bike, taxi, and even often if they arrive by car you mostly need a truck to haul the purchases home.

True, but Ikea does deliveries and it's not really necessary to actually drive to the store to get their products home. I'd much rather be able to take a train to Ikea, buy what I need, and have it delivered, especially since the Zipcar rental cost and the delivery cost are in the same ballpark.

Not that it matters anyway since it won't get built. Hopefully they put something more urban in its place.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

True, but Ikea does deliveries and it's not really necessary to actually drive to the store to get their products home. I'd much rather be able to take a train to Ikea, buy what I need, and have it delivered, especially since the Zipcar rental cost and the delivery cost are in the same ballpark.

Not that it matters anyway since it won't get built. Hopefully they put something more urban in its place.

MetaS -- the future might be Amazon furniture - -with web / smart phone ordering and same day delivery from a nearly fully automated local warehouse based on the technology Amazon has aquired by buying Keva Systems
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

So where does this leave the Orange Line stop? Wasn't IKEA paying for it? Sorry if it got mentioned and I'm missing it.

IKEA did pay a couple million to help finance the Assembly Square T station as well as paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes per year. The 11.9 acre site of which IKEA currently owns was recently valued at 18+ Million. FRIT seems to be the presumptive buyer with previous dealings with IKEA and a good relationship with the city, who will control the development of the property.

IKEA leaving will have no effect on the Assembly Sq. station construction or Assembly Row's development. Currently, The T station construction involves setting up for detours around site of future platform and 2 headhouses. Assembly Row is finishing up construction of a one-story building with 2 restaurants as well as continuing foundation work on Blocks 1,3, and 4. All 3 blocks have no below grade construction so work should progress quickly.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

Wig Zamore (of STEP, Mystic View Task Force, etc.) told me that Federal Realty several years ago assumed Ikea's share of the Assembly Square T station expense.

Less certain is the fate of the bike/pedestrian path that is supposed to parallel the Orange Line between Foley Street and Mystic Avenue, on the edge of Ikea's property. I hope that any future developer is still required to build this.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

HUH???

You call yourself F-Line to Dudley -- if that's not a fixation with rail -- then I'm missing something profound

The error was looking for something profound in the label in the first place. That's my RR.net login, born 8 years ago in about 30 seconds of staring blankly at the sign-up screen and trying to think of something witty to call myself. I regged here at a time when the RR.net moderator police state was particularly pissing me off. Yes, I post a lot more actively in the transit threads as a result of from whence I came. So sue me...it's where I've got more to contribute.

What you're doing is more of the same perjorative name-calling and pigeonholing that begets garbage like this:

whighlander said:
...a lot of the "Pro-transit / rail -- anti-highway at all costs crowd" would say...


When you feel like growing up and taking the discussion seriously, I'll be happy to take you seriously. Threadshitting in thoughtfully-worded prose is still threadshitting. You get called out on it because people are fully capable of telling the difference.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

Yes, I post a lot more actively in the transit threads as a result of from whence I came. So sue me...it's where I've got more to contribute..

F-Line -- I'm vey appreciative of your contributions with respect to the operational and technical matters involved with the T and Amtrak

Where we overalp is that I have a technical interest in the T and rail and such. It seems that where we disagree is that I look at the T and Amtrak as a utilitarian part of the overall transportation system. i don't love the T and hate the Turnpike. Both provide the Greater Boston Area with important services.

When I referred to "rail/transit at all costs" -- what I was referring to was someone who is so wedded to rail public transit that they are unable to intelectually grasp the fact that the planet as a whole is moving (both figuratively and litteraly) to personal motor vehicles.

Yes, there may in fact be some local deviations from the trend -- but the trend is unmitakable. Crowds of cars, scooters, motor cycles, 3 wheelers, etc., on crude streets or even raw dirt trails are the unmistakeable indicator of the transition of a region.from subsistence agriculture to a more developed lifestyle -- cell phones follow shortly.

Why -- because the motor vehicle is the manifestation of personal and economic freedom -- with a motor vehicle you can carry yourself, your tools and your products to where your customers are located -- beyond the limits of where you can go on foot.

In developed urban areas, rail is a supplement to, not a replacement for the personal motor vehicle. This is mostly because of rail's inability to rapidly evolve with the economy. With rail you are tied to the rails, or the area within a distance which you can effectively walk to/from the rail vehicles. The correlary of the above is that the rails are effective in dense western-style cities, and as feeders from the surrounding denser amd closer suburbs as they have developed. The Boston T is a perfect example -- the rails expanded to bring people into downtown Boston from neighborhoods in the "Street-car suburbs" such as Sommerville, Brookline, Medford and Newton.

Unfortunately, for the T -- the development of modern metropolitan regions such as Boston has favored more or less far-flung places for people to live, shop and work -- e.g. Burlingtom, Burlington Mall, New England Executive Park. With the exception of limited narrow dense radial coridors these modern development paterns don't work well with rail because of immutable laws of geometry -- as you get further out the distance between raidial lines gets too great to allow the "walk-to coridors" to overlap.

So what does all this mean for the future:

Positive:
The combination of personal vehicles and rail can work together effectively -- if the suburban housing has effecient highway access to the rail terminal -- e.g. Alewife, Riverside.

On the Negative side:
Outside of the core - - reverse commutes, and off-peak useage will always be minor compared to the in-bound commuter usage. For the most part even so-called Transit Oriented Developments are just a way to plunk a bunch of appartments next to an Alewife. Any non-housing in such a place as Alewife will insignificantly result in many reverse commutes.

In the middle:
Some people may chose to live next to work in the TOD and then may use the T off-peak without parking in the garage.

As long as the T and its adherants understand the above the T will be compatible with the growth and development of Greater Boston.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

blah blah blah
I was going to reply with a rebuttal to your argument but then realized this is the Assembly Square Redevelopment thread not the Whighlander Automotive Circle-Jerk thread.

That being said, whats going on with the development, construction, permitting, ideas, architectural reviews, urban planning, architecture, ikea, land use, brownfield cleanup, and other such things RELATING TO THE REDEVELOPMENT OF ASSEMBLY SQUARE? What does everyone think of the plans for assembly row?
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

I was going to reply with a rebuttal to your argument but then realized this is the Assembly Square Redevelopment thread not the Whighlander Automotive Circle-jerk

So completely inappropriate. Leave Westie alone. Don't like what he has to say? A) Respond to it, B) Ignore it, C) Don't read it. Don't like that others respond and it spawns a side conversation? A) Weigh in with something on the main topic that's interesting enough to bring it back, B) Avoid clicking on the topic for 24 hours (the forum doesnt exist for your round the clock entertainment). It really makes no difference whether or not Westie shares your worldview; there is no excuse for vulgar ad hominems.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

When I referred to "rail/transit at all costs" -- what I was referring to was someone who is so wedded to rail public transit that they are unable to intelectually grasp the fact that the planet as a whole is moving (both figuratively and litteraly) to personal motor vehicles.

So you must invent perjorative groupings for your perceived intellectual inferiors, and constantly be searching for persons and discussions to fill that bucket? Context be damned?

If that was an attempt in your mind to explain that this pattern of posting behavior is somehow not threadshitting or intended as such...it accomplished the exact opposite.


I'll say it again...when you feel like participating in the discussion at hand, give us a holler. The difference between those substantive posts and this condescending masturbatory tripe is clear as day, and you are not owed any pass on that behavior just because you're on-topic and taking the discussion seriously some of the time. It dignifies the responses or non-responses it dignifies.
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

The error was looking for something profound in the label in the first place. That's my RR.net login, born 8 years ago in about 30 seconds of staring blankly at the sign-up screen and trying to think of something witty to call myself. I regged here at a time when the RR.net moderator police state was particularly pissing me off. Yes, I post a lot more actively in the transit threads as a result of from whence I came. So sue me...it's where I've got more to contribute.

What you're doing is more of the same perjorative name-calling and pigeonholing that begets garbage like this:




When you feel like growing up and taking the discussion seriously, I'll be happy to take you seriously. Threadshitting in thoughtfully-worded prose is still threadshitting. You get called out on it because people are fully capable of telling the difference.

Ah , the RR.net police....hehe. I was banned for arguing on Facebook , not on RR.net but Facebook. Ive never been banned over something ive done offsite , and only been banned twice before both 5 years ago.... I think that sites starting to crumble and that's a shame... Then you have Jeff , who likes to run the site like a boot camp and is afraid of Employees posting rail pix...
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

Ah , the RR.net police....hehe. I was banned for arguing on Facebook , not on RR.net but Facebook. Ive never been banned over something ive done offsite , and only been banned twice before both 5 years ago.... I think that sites starting to crumble and that's a shame... Then you have Jeff , who likes to run the site like a boot camp and is afraid of Employees posting rail pix...

Eh...it's better than it used to be since Jeff took over, since he came up through the ranks of "the normals" and wasn't exactly beloved by "the fascists" himself when he used to be on the receiving end. On a site that sprawling I can understand why a couple C&D notices about pics on private property-owned-by-big industry might make all-or-nothing the only failsafe way to handle it. Because, when you think about it, that kind of railfanning is by nature this weirdly tolerated dance with outright trespassing. I don't get their anal-retentitiveness about quoting articles, but from what I gather there was some lawsuitlarity in the trade press a few years back that got them spooked.

Funny story: now that the Sword of Damocles has claimed the admin superpowers of a certain someone who lived for nothing but to dangle it over others' heads, the individual forum mods are practically tripping over themselves throwing him under the bus to explain away their own past behaviors as stuff they had to do against their own will. Funny that. :rolleyes:


(For the record, I've only been threatened with bannination 4 different times in 8 years. I never responded to Sword-of-Damocles'-wielder's PM's--ever, not even once, on principle--so I apparently never reached that satisfying climactic point of the "F*** you" / "No, f*** you!" exchange where he would push the button to officially get the last word. I think he hates me even more because I didn't.)
 
Re: Assembly Square Redevelopment

I'm not any sort of mod here, but can we gently steer the discussion back to Assembly Square?
 

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