AVA North Point II | Archtone phase II | East Cambridge

Is it too late to turn North Point over to the Assembly Row team?
 
palindrome said:
Especially when that developer is avalon bay from what I hear.
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Nope. Its everywhere. Its called 5 over 1. Or (whatever numbers of wood framed floors) over (a base of concrete/steel). Its the cheapest way to build multi family.

Personally I would rent a place for a couple of years in one of these, but would not buy. And if I were an investor I would make sure your get your ROI in less than 10 years from the day it was opened.

cca
 
cca said:
Nope. Its everywhere. Its called 5 over 1. Or (whatever numbers of wood framed floors) over (a base of concrete/steel). Its the cheapest way to build multi family.

Personally I would rent a place for a couple of years in one of these, but would not buy. And if I were an investor I would make sure your get your ROI in less than 10 years from the day it was opened.

cca
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Are you suggesting that wood framed homes are a poor investment? Because the vast majority of housing stock in Boston is wood framed 2/3-families probably followed by wood framed small apartment buildings. There hasn't been any problem with their ROI over the past 150 years or so. People are paying over a million dollars for wood framed condos and don't seem to care much that they can hear their neighbors footsteps.

So what evidence do you have that wood framing gives poor ROI?

(To be clear I'm not saying wood is just as good as concrete, I'm saying that people are still paying top dollar for wood)
 
So what evidence do you have that wood framing gives poor ROI?
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It's all those Dot three decks people bought for $20K in the 80s that are selling for $1M. Would have been $2M if they weren't wood.
 
fattony said:
Are you suggesting that wood framed homes are a poor investment? Because the vast majority of housing stock in Boston is wood framed 2/3-families probably followed by wood framed small apartment buildings. There hasn't been any problem with their ROI over the past 150 years or so. People are paying over a million dollars for wood framed condos and don't seem to care much that they can hear their neighbors footsteps.

So what evidence do you have that wood framing gives poor ROI?

(To be clear I'm not saying wood is just as good as concrete, I'm saying that people are still paying top dollar for wood)
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Yup. The majority of buildings are homes. The vast majority of home are made of wood. Have you ever done a deferred maintenance cost analysis of a single family house? The %/sf is not very good. One is constantly maintaining the roof, cladding and other features. Its part of home ownership.

The issue happens when you are building not for yourself but for a series of investors. The word risk comes into play. Wood framed buildings are simply less stable, susceptible to fire, rot, pests, high rates of movement and settling. Are they safe? Yes. If EVERYTHING is done right and properly. In this industry there is so much pressure to cut corners that I would never trust that "everything" is done properly in any project no matter what the systems. Other systems simple have a greater margin of error.

So, in my humble opinion you are taking a risk? Yes. Is it high? I dont know, but it is higher than other systems. I have never said don't buy a condo in a wood framed building, I have never said never invest in a wood framed building, I have only said "do your homework". If no one ever saw a good ROI on these thing they would not be built.

In the end, whatever your investment is, it is probably safe. Probably.

cca
 
^ good info cca

How do you think this wood construction will impact the resale of these assets on the secondary market? Should these trade at a lower $/sqft due to higher risk and larger deferred maintenance cost?
 
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I think you mean if the developer sells the entire project?

Regarding condos, though, to the new / first-time buyer, these days, they might not notice what's being used for construction materials but any good real estate agent would be able to tell and give an opinion. For me, I'd be skeptical about holding on long-term, but then again, with mortgage loans being almost free money due to low interest rates, if the option is to rent vs. buy, you could still buy and hold and sell for as much as you bought it, plus inflation.

There's a reason most of these wood-frame buildings are rentals instead of condos - (traditionally) homebuyers have been smart cookies.

John0101 said:
^ good info cca

How do you think this wood construction will impact the resale of these assets on the secondary market? Should these trade at a lower $/sqft due to higher risk and larger deferred maintenance cost?
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That cladding is awful. Looks like an old tenement, but not as well built.
 
Yikes. The cladding makes the 80's fabulous development on the other side of the tracks look high end.

The cheapness of this project knows no limits.
 
The brick is definitely darker but so far its matching up with the renders where it looks alright so hopefully once its more fully cladded it will start to turn around. I don't think there is enough installed yet to really be able to determine one way or the other because things will always look bad when they're still in the process of being created. Im hoping this turns out at least good enough to be a solid background filler type building that just fades into anonymity and doesn't stand out for the wrong reasons. I think that would be a win because of the net housing and ground floor activation it brings.

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AVA-North-Point-II-1.jpg
 
No, this is going to turn out like a pile of shit. The details are left out of the rending and are like acne scars on the real thing.
 
Idk theres still a chance for it to be ok filler. Well see the consensus in a few months.
 
I try to be patient with projects, but I'm with Van on this....it sucks. I spend alot of time in that neck of the woods, and this thing fails on multiple levels: height, massing, facade treatment, and use of 5 over 1 construction. At least the green line viaduct will block it from view.
 
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