Back Bay Garage Tower | Dartmouth and Stuart | Back Bay

datadyne007 said:
How many threads are you going to post the MoS renovation pix in??
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Data -- I predominantly post the MOS project status in the MOS Renovations Thread

However, when images from the MOS project are apropos to a specific topic being discussed on some other thread then I may use them there as well
 
Went to the public meeting today to get the public's feel on this, only to realise I was missing the JP/Rox planning meeting going on in my neighbourhood...so I basically stuck around for the CliffsNotes version of the PNF.

A few highlights I haven't seen mentioned here from the PNF are the 'Alternate Scheme' plans that start on page 68 of the PNF PDF. They're exploring an option with MassDOT where they actually close the on-ramp to the Pike [from page 115 in the PDF]:

As described in Section 1.2, the elimination of the existing I-90 On-Ramp located below the Garage West Parcel is being considered due to design and safety issues relating to its merge in the I-90 mainline. Closure of the On-Ramp may be feasible because it is one of three westbound on-ramps to I-90 serving this portion of the Back Bay, and it currently carries approximately 10% of the total daily traffic using the three ramps. Closure of the On-Ramp would require detailed analysis by MassDOT, consultation with the City of Boston and review by the FHWA through the submission of an Interchange Modification Report (IMR).
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Also gleaned from the meeting that I didn't immediately notice in the PNF:
  • we're getting a less shady connection with Stuart Street from Back Bay station's main hall through the lobby of the new office building
  • MassDOT purportedly has required the developer renovate and maintain the station to 'airport terminal quality'
  • 'initial clean-up' of the station is apparently ongoing
  • station restrooms get renovated this year
  • the 'ventilation project' starts next year followed by major renovation of the station - garage bracing and teardown to follow pending approval
 
Would they consider flipping the orientation of this to finally create a westbound off ramp from 90 West into Back Bay?
 
cburns said:
Would they consider flipping the orientation of this to finally create a westbound off ramp from 90 West into Back Bay?
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I wondered the same exact thing when the plan was announced months ago, but it got lost in everyone's excitement for the announcement:

dshoost88 said:
...On a similar note, I noticed there's an alternate possibility of closing the I-90 Westbound entrance ramp from Clarendon Street. In a similar vain to my previous statement, I think it would be really, really amazing if they could convert this to an I-90 westbound EXIT ramp onto Trinity Place. Right now if you're coming from points east of Back Bay (I-93, Seaport, Logan/East Boston), you cannot exit the Pike until you hit Allston 3 miles away. An exit ramp here onto Trinity Place (and ultimately Stuart/St. James) would do wonders!
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Surely they must have be studying this, right? Did the developers or MassDOT say anything at the meeting yesterday, DigitalSciGuy?
 
MassDOT analyzed putting an exit ramp westbound somewhere around that location and determined it isn't really feasible, mainly because exit ramps have to be much longer than entrance ramps.

The catch with closing this exit ramp re the development is that if they don't, they need to build a new garage exit onto Darmouth St, which would royally suck for pedestrians. Whereas it they close the ramp, they can build a new garage exit onto Trinity Pl. This is because both the garage entry and exit drums will be taken down as part of the development, but they still need a second garage exit somewhere.
 
No! Close the ramp. Full stop. Sure, close it as a westbound on-ramp. There's another on-ramp nearby. But we absolutely can't entertain the idea of flipping it to a westbound ramp. There's no good reason to make it easier to drive directly into the Back Bay spine.
 
DigitalSciGuy said:
No! Close the ramp. Full stop. Sure, close it as a westbound on-ramp. There's another on-ramp nearby. But we absolutely can't entertain the idea of flipping it to a westbound ramp. There's no good reason to make it easier to drive directly into the Back Bay spine.
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I'd argue with this one. One word AIRPORT.

But the ramp belongs down at Berkeley Street -- reversing the Arlington Street entrance ramp.
 
The Massport Back Bay airport shuttle would definitely benefit from a westbound ramp in Back Bay. But it's definitely a contentious issue, because a new offramp is going to introduce a lot of traffic at the point where it lands. MassDOT did come up with a design to flip the direction of the ramp between Arlington and Berkeley St, but they over designed it so that it would actually take parts of buildings, require bridge widening, and they also wanted to make Cortes St a dead end. It was a terrible plan and thankfully they rejected it. If they could figure out how to do it less invasively, it could work. On the other hand, Berkeley St is already so jammed up at rush hour, I wonder if it really makes any sense to dump a bunch of highway traffic there...
 
DigitalSciGuy said:
No! Close the ramp. Full stop. Sure, close it as a westbound on-ramp. There's another on-ramp nearby. But we absolutely can't entertain the idea of flipping it to a westbound ramp. There's no good reason to make it easier to drive directly into the Back Bay spine.
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I get the sentiment but a Back Bay exit ramp provides one less reason for keeping Storrow as it is. In other words, there's a bigger picture here.
 
DigitalSciGuy said:
No! Close the ramp. Full stop. Sure, close it as a westbound on-ramp. There's another on-ramp nearby. But we absolutely can't entertain the idea of flipping it to a westbound ramp. There's no good reason to make it easier to drive directly into the Back Bay spine.
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Yes, because heaven forbid that people crass and evil enough to own CARS be able to sully our beautiful city with their toxic awfulness!
 
JeffDowntown said:
I'd argue with this one. One word AIRPORT.

But the ramp belongs down at Berkeley Street -- reversing the Arlington Street entrance ramp.
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JeffDowntown -- What is really needed desperately is an on-ramp in the Back Bay for I-90 E towards South Boston, and ultimately the Airport -- preferably in the vicinity of the Back Bay

The closest on-ramp going the right direction is off of Storrow Drive out by Harvard's new expansion, or alternatively you go east all the way on Storrow to the Leverett Circle ramp to the South I-93 [airport only via Sumner Tunnel], or you have the slow alternative of a combination of surface streets
 
I think another element that makes it difficult is that if they were to design a new ramp, it would have to meet current FHA standards. That could be why the proposal seemed "overdesigned." Given that the Mass Pike trench is wildly non-compliant, I'd venture to guess that the on-ramp isn't compliant either meaning you can't just mirror the ramp to be an off ramp without taking some additional land to create a proper off ramp and intersection.
 
whighlander said:
JeffDowntown -- What is really needed desperately is an on-ramp in the Back Bay for I-90 E towards South Boston, and ultimately the Airport -- preferably in the vicinity of the Back Bay

The closest on-ramp going the right direction is off of Storrow Drive out by Harvard's new expansion, or alternatively you go east all the way on Storrow to the Leverett Circle ramp to the South I-93 [airport only via Sumner Tunnel], or you have the slow alternative of a combination of surface streets
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Or you ride in a cab, Uber or bus, and take the HOV entrance around South Station or the Ink Block. There is also eastbound access from Albany Street for all cars. Lots of people cut across the South End to get there. But there is no westbound option, other than the direct HOV connection to South Station Parking.

But you are correct you actually need better Airport focused access both ways for I-90. (If you need to get there, you also need to get back from there -- likely same amount of demand both directions.)
 
whighlander said:
JeffDowntown -- What is really needed desperately is an on-ramp in the Back Bay for I-90 E towards South Boston, and ultimately the Airport -- preferably in the vicinity of the Back Bay

The closest on-ramp going the right direction is off of Storrow Drive out by Harvard's new expansion, or alternatively you go east all the way on Storrow to the Leverett Circle ramp to the South I-93 [airport only via Sumner Tunnel], or you have the slow alternative of a combination of surface streets
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Or the alternative of using the slingshot, which is usually quicker than using Storrow to get on the pike, but does cost an extra $1. ($2 toll instead of $1).

Personally, I think the slingshot should be free and I agree that you should be able to go east on the Turnpike from Back Bay.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Or you ride in a cab, Uber or bus, and take the HOV entrance around South Station or the Ink Block. There is also eastbound access from Albany Street for all cars. Lots of people cut across the South End to get there. But there is no westbound option, other than the direct HOV connection to South Station Parking.

But you are correct you actually need better Airport focused access both ways for I-90. (If you need to get there, you also need to get back from there -- likely same amount of demand both directions.)
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Actually the HOV lane to the the Ted Williams tunnel is no longer HOV. They opened it up to all traffic, although they forgot to fix all the signs. (The ones on I-93 itself don't say HOV anymore, but the ones on the surface streets do.)
 
cden4 said:
Actually the HOV lane to the the Ted Williams tunnel is no longer HOV. They opened it up to all traffic, although they forgot to fix all the signs. (The ones on I-93 itself don't say HOV anymore, but the ones on the surface streets do.)
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It is HOV again. The 6 month trial ended Feb 19. MassDOT is currently studying the results of the trial to make a final determination on opening the HOV to all traffic permanently.

https://www.massport.com/media/338626/SBBR-HOV_TriFold_Aug12.pdf
 
Sorry I derailed the thread. My last words on the on-ramp situation:
  • It's good urbanism to close it and plug that vacuous face of the garage on Clarendon St.
  • We can argue all we want the merits of flipping it to a westbound off-ramp but for numerous reasons already reiterated by datadyne and cden4, it's not happening (and good riddance for that)
  • Shepard, I get what you're saying about bigger picture, but the bigger picture is bigger than providing alternate car access to Back Bay so we can remove/boulevardise Storrow Drive, but I'm happy to discuss that in another thread.

cden4 and I chatted over lunch today about the public comments after I left the meeting and it sounds like there wasn't too much public opposition. Is anyone going to the meeting next Wednesday in the South End?
 
This was cool as filler when Copley Tower was still on the table, but now they need to VE the shit out of this....which they will. No reason to throw a jumbled pile of turds right next door to the Hancock. I never understand why people resort to white prefab that looks terrible when you can literally just lazy your way out of it with glass and it pretty much always looks okay....redundant but ok. Luckily this is Boston and as the circle of life dictates this will look nothing like this by the time its built...if its built. Fingers crossed we get some quality here.

for anyone that hasnt seen it...or forgot:




We can do much better than this. The leaning tower of pis-ass looks like the new 2wtc banged PWC in the seaport. Itll be ok once its time for shovels to hit the dirt though. The taller tower looks like North Station Towers sketchy brother. These were going to be background noise to Copley Tower and 40 Trinity but now that theyre on front st. they need to hit the treadmill.
 
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