Back Bay Garage Tower | Dartmouth and Stuart | Back Bay

Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

DominusNovus said:
You do understand that the issues are entirely interrelated, don't you? If a school district has many poor students, they're being funded by the tax dollars of poor parents. These kids aren't just forming out of the aether.
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School district is funded largely by property taxes. Boston is fine in this regard. Maybe not smaller cities like Lawrence.

Its OK if people feel more comfortable sending their kids to schools where the other kids are just like them. Its probably even natural. But I think people are being dishonest if they say its the quality of teaching, buildings, programs, etc that are causing them to flee BPS. Unless you've spent time in the system, I don't know how you can get a good feel for all of that. Its much easier to look at test scores and, surprise, the districts that are educating all of the poor and immigrant kids don't have test score AVERAGES that are competitive with upper income suburban districts. People should just be honest.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

TheRifleman said:
Agree,

but I still would rather do nothing in a good school enviroment and have those people as my contacts in that school rather than a bad school environment.

You would be lucky to get out of a bad school environment with a positive outlook on life. How many successful people do you know from Brockton or Lawrence besides little poopy?
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Not that their is ever much research behind your statements, and not just because I live in Brockton.

But, while Brockton has the largest enrollment in the State and the largest graduating class in the State.... they are also one of consistently one of the best public school systems in the COUNTRY. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brockton_High_School

Anywho, it's derailed and I just added to it. But, this is an example of urban schooling working, and also actually keeps some families in Brockton, because let's face it.... we don't have a ton going for us in other departments.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

belmont square said:
School district is funded largely by property taxes. Boston is fine in this regard. Maybe not smaller cities like Lawrence.

Its OK if people feel more comfortable sending their kids to schools where the other kids are just like them. Its probably even natural. But I think people are being dishonest if they say its the quality of teaching, buildings, programs, etc that are causing them to flee BPS. Unless you've spent time in the system, I don't know how you can get a good feel for all of that. Its much easier to look at test scores and, surprise, the districts that are educating all of the poor and immigrant kids don't have test score AVERAGES that are competitive with upper income suburban districts. People should just be honest.
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You seem to want to make this about race, but it has much more to do with income. Unfortunately, schools with high levels of low income students need to devote more of their finite resources to those students. Schools with high levels of ESL students need to devote more of their finite resources to those students.

This wouldn't be as large a problem if schools were well funded, but they are not, and it is particularly the schools needing the most funding that are the least funded. This is wrong and backwards and needs to be fixed, but until it is, most people will not be willing to risk the education of their children. The motivation of those who cannot afford private school to flee the city is pretty simple and certainly not deserving of scorn.

(Why is this discussion not being moved to a new thread?)
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

belmont square said:
I understand the perspective and its still the dominant one. But I don't buy that its a school quality issue--its a school demographics issue. If you were still in Beacon Hill, and BPS had a student body that mirrored Wellesley's demographics, but the school system had other drawbacks (poor physical plant, lack of resources, programs) would you move your family to Wellesley just because of "school quality" if the school age population was 85% nonwhite and 75% free or reduced lunch? Particularly given that you seemed to like living in the city? I just don't buy it. Its not the schools people flee--its the demographics. People should just be more honest about it.
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As I said before when I was there, Beacon Hill residents tried to get the city to open a school there and an anonymous donor offered the city a building. The city rejected it. I believe the building was on Brimmer Street. There were no nearby schools for my kids. None in downtown, west end, north end, beacon hill or back bay if I remember correctly. So, yes if there was a quality school there we seriously considered staying.

I consider all aspects of the school experience, building, programs, equipment, teachers, PTA, teachers, students, families, etc.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

SeamusMcFly said:
Not that their is ever much research behind your statements, and not just because I live in Brockton.

But, while Brockton has the largest enrollment in the State and the largest graduating class in the State.... they are also one of consistently one of the best public school systems in the COUNTRY. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brockton_High_School
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That's a stretch. I actually read that sort of stuff and Brockton always appears down at the bottom with the Lawrences and the Lowells. The Wikipedia article might carry a bit more weight if it offered even one citation for Brockton's purported quality.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

Regarding these and other posts:

datadyne007 said:
Another thread completely derailed.
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Lurker said:
We have reached the point of requiring iron fisted RR.Net style moderation.
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The real issue is that there isn't much to actually discuss regarding the theoretical tower. Hence, the discussion went elsewhere. That said, I agree that the school discussion (and I take some blame here, I participated) should probably be split off to a new thread in the general topics forum.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

SeamusMcFly said:
Not that their is ever much research behind your statements, and not just because I live in Brockton.

But, while Brockton has the largest enrollment in the State and the largest graduating class in the State.... they are also one of consistently one of the best public school systems in the COUNTRY. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brockton_High_School

Anywho, it's derailed and I just added to it. But, this is an example of urban schooling working, and also actually keeps some families in Brockton, because let's face it.... we don't have a ton going for us in other departments.
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Hey, u have to admit my statement was pretty funny thou. I listen to that Little Poopy rap video on the Boston Herald page. I actually thought he was pretty good.

Brockton is also the capital of the state for single mothers. I also remember when Brockton was unstoppable in football until Everett started kicking everybody ass.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

Pretty sure Boston's the capital regardless of one's marital status.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

kmp1284 said:
That's a stretch. I actually read that sort of stuff and Brockton always appears down at the bottom with the Lawrences and the Lowells. The Wikipedia article might carry a bit more weight if it offered even one citation for Brockton's purported quality.
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That was me being lazy. They received another one this past year. I'll grab it at some point out of the papers. Brockton High never appears near the bottom of any list however, I would like to see anything to support that.

http://www.enterprisenews.com/topst...d-from-Associated-Industries-of-Massachusetts
http://www.leadered.com/pdf/brocktonHS.pdf
http://www.successfulpractices.org/spn/media/files/articles/casestudies/Brockton High School.pdf
http://www.brocktonpublicschools.com/page.cfm?p=1&newsid=232
http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../districts/brockton/brockton-high-school-9323

The english and math proficiencies are slightly below state average, but well above both Lowell and Lawrence.

Anywho. I didn't go to school in Brockton, but have been here for 15 years. It's a surpisingly good school since its turn around in the 90's and the residents should be proud, which they are. Again, it is a model of a school that works with a diverse, heavily minority, with a large percentage of lower income students as well, still functionaing very well.
 
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Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

So.... Anyone got a rendering of the proposal?
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

Could I.M. Pei be called to design the perfect compliment to the JHT?
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

eat-popcorn-3D.gif
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

type001 said:
Could I.M. Pei be called to design the perfect compliment to the JHT?
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IM Pei actually didn't design it. If IM Pei had his way, the JHT would have been a rounded concrete tower with a facade like everything else he actually designed. Henry Cobb was actually the mastermind behind the glass shard.
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

^Of course. Duh on my part.

Someone call Cobb!
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

Didn't Pei design the garage though? It sure seems more like one of his works..
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

I want to see if people are thinking the same thing as me. Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity and time to propose Boston's new tallest at this site especially? A true iconic tower to be seen from the site of the explosions to tell the world "You can't stop us, but only make us stronger".
 
Re: Back Bay Garage Tower (Dartmouth and Stuart)

^I've always felt that the Hancock Garage site is the perfect spot for a 1000' tower. Far from any Logan flight paths, across the street from an existing 800' (and future 600+') tower, and replaces a cement brutalist monstrosity. Nothing but win.
 
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