Boston 2024

I don't think the Olympics "make money" for a host community. I do however think they represent an opportunity to jumpstart projects that will have net-positive benefits for the city and the region in the long term.

If we got the litany of transit projects mentioned here and in other threads countless times (Red/Blue, BLX, bits and pieces of Urban Ring, etc.) and we get it all before 2030? For me, that's worth the price.
 
I missed this article earlier.

Fish also told commissioners that building a 16,000-person Olympic Village and a dining hall to accommodate 5,000 athletes in metro Boston may not require major new construction of permanent housing. "Density would be overwhelming long-term, which is why I want to talk about prefabrication and modular," he said.

So, prepare to be ejected from your homes unless you own. And even then...

We won't get much needed housing out of the Olympics.

MassDOT Highway Administrator Frank DePaola followed Struthers with a presentation on the major infrastructure projects in the works for the next 10 years, including the extensions of the Green Line, South Coast rail, the expansion of South Station, and highway work to improve bottlenecks at the I-93 and I-95 interchanges in Woburn and Canton, as well as the Allston-Brighton toll plaza.

Why is DePaola presenting transit projects? Oh, and South Coast Rail. Right. Nothing says Olympic-scaled transit investment like a dinky commuter rail line that'll run 10 times per day.

MBTAddict said:
If we got the litany of transit projects mentioned here and in other threads countless times (Red/Blue, BLX, bits and pieces of Urban Ring, etc.) and we get it all before 2030? For me, that's worth the price.

Or, more likely, we'll get South Coast Rail and uh ... that's it, because the budget will run out.

But hey, we'll get plenty of resident displacement.
 
If you want the olympics, fine. If you want free infrastructure, not so fine.

Frankly, I think the Gov's gas tax hike is jump starting the worthwhile infrastructure projects.

People forget that the LA Olympics made money mostly because they could refurbish infrastructure they had, rather than build new.

Rather than start with a wish list of big-ticket transit infrastructure and build venues to justify it (like throwing events to the South Coast to justfiy $2b for SCR) how about we start with a list of venues we have and make do with facelifts?

If anything, Boston already has more venues than it needs.
2 Convention Centers (Hynes + New Thing)
3 Indoor Arenas (BU, BC, Garden)
3 Outdoor Stadiums (BC, Gillette, Soldiers's Field)

And then transit-accessible stuff
DCU Arena (Worcester)
Tsongas Arena (Lowell) (beef up the circulator-MBTA connection)
Dunkin Donuts (PVD)


The *one* chicken-and-egg problem I'd be willing to solve is hotel/housing capacity near the Convention Center. I'd put the Olympic Village there, and have it become hotels and apts after.
 
3 Indoor Arenas (BU, BC, Garden)

Four if you include Matthews Arena at Northeastern University (which was long ago home to both the Celtics and Bruins)

3 Outdoor Stadiums (BC, Gillette, Soldiers's Field)

I haven't heard of the third one. Where is it?
 
As a favor to Olympic boosters, here's a list:
Arenas and "Column Free" Transit-Connectable spaces in Olympic Boston
(with most recent significant renovation and Wiki link)

68,700 -- Gillette Stadium 2002 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillette_Stadium
44,500 BC Alumni Stadium 1995 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumni_Stadium
30,200 H- Harvard Stadium 1951 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Stadium
22,000 ?? Soccer Specific Stadium 202x
20,000 -- (Head of the Charles rowing)
17,500 -- TD Garden 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Garden (hockey capacity)
14,700 -- DCU Center 1997 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCU_Center
11,900 -- Dunkin Donuts 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkin'_Donuts_Center
10,000 2x BCEC 2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Convention_and_Exhibition_Center
10,000 BU Nickerson Field 1955 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickerson_Field
7,200 BU Agganis Arena 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agganis_Arena
8,600 BC Conte Forum 1988 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conte_Forum
6,500 UM Tsongas Center 1998 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsongas_Arena
6,000 NU Matthews Arena 1910 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthews_Arena

I'm ruling out the Hynes (columns) and the baseball stadiums (busy...or used for Olympic Baseball, such as it is/may be)

I look at that, and you can sprinkle few temporary venues (beach volleyball in Revere?), and all that's missing is a swimming venue (maybe Harvard would take a new one in exchange for making their stadium a full oval and seat 50,000 like originally). And of course the strange little venues (whitewater sports?).

But its basically all there. You might sprinkle a streetcar circulator on Lowell, Have a temporary CR platform here or there, but if its going to work in any North American city, from here out, its going to work because the IOC needs to bring it here every once in a while (for TV interest $$$), not because there's some city stupid enough to run up a huge pile of debt.
 
I'm ruling out the Hynes (columns) and the baseball stadiums (busy...or used for Olympic Baseball, such as it is/may be)

If baseball is re-added to the list of Olympic sports by 2024, the IOC would likely require the quid pro quo of an MLB schedule gap, just as hockey is taking a break right now. Baseball gets a new commissioner next year, so who knows whether that could happen. If it's not an Olympic sport in 2024, the Red Sox could be sent on an extended road trip for most or all of the two weeks. The 2014 schedule has the Red Sox away from Fenway for two 12-day stretches in August/September. The same goes for the Lowell Spinners or Pawtucket Red Sox. Point is, Fenway should be on the table either way, and if you feel inclined to include the minor league parks, you can go for it.
 
If we got the litany of transit projects mentioned here and in other threads countless times (Red/Blue, BLX, bits and pieces of Urban Ring, etc.) and we get it all before 2030? For me, that's worth the price.


Orange line expansion south to 128 should be a priority - although I'd settle for one extra stop in Roslindale. This isn't even on the MBTA's radar, but a roslindale village stop would easily become one of the busiest stations in the entire system and eliminate the need for 8 bus lines to run down a single stretch of Washington street. It would also be a boon to Roslindale's Business district. The needham commuter rail line has extremely limited service and is a little too expensive for many of the people who live within walking distance of Roslindale Square.

if this proposal starts gaining teeth, I think this needs to be a part of it.
 
Don't forget about White Stadium in Franklin Park, which seats 10,000 and could easily have temporary seating added to double that amount.

I'm getting tired of this Olympic Village talk being hyped by the media. Any Boston bid should NOT use that concept. It should be 90% existing venues for events, and at least 50% for athlete dorms. As for existing academic dorms not being able to be used for athletes, the IOC needs to change it's mind about that. The new dorms being built (particularly at BU) not only have a fit and finish that rivals some of the luxury apartments going up, but their security is pretty high too (ID badges required for entry, security gates etc). This could easily be supplemented as needed. If the IOC won't budge on this, then Boston should pass.
 
I'm getting tired of this Olympic Village talk being hyped by the media. Any Boston bid should NOT use that concept. It should be 90% existing venues for events, and at least 50% for athlete dorms. As for existing academic dorms not being able to be used for athletes, the IOC needs to change it's mind about that. The new dorms being built (particularly at BU) not only have a fit and finish that rivals some of the luxury apartments going up, but their security is pretty high too (ID badges required for entry, security gates etc). This could easily be supplemented as needed. If the IOC won't budge on this, then Boston should pass.

I tend to share your sentiment - that we should submit a proposal that is good for Boston and the USOC and IOC can take it or leave it. We should not be goaded into proposing ridiculous things just because some Sultan or Emir is willing to.

However, I'm pretty sure a secure and closed to the public housing complex for the athletes is considered a security requirement. I don't think it is such a bad idea though. Maybe the centerpiece of the athlete village could be a couple of permanent apartment or dorm buildings, with the rest using some innovative modular concept. The majority of the 16,000 beds (or whatever the number is) can start their life in the Athlete Village and then move to other parts of the city as permanent housing or dormitories after the games. No single neighborhood/area would accept that large of a development hitting the market all at once after the games anyway, but the metro area could easily absorb that many units if they can be redistributed.
 
Arlington said:
20,000 -- (Head of the Charles rowing)

You mean spectators lining the river? The Charles is out for rowing. The course isn't regulation.
 
In my mind for dorms. The area I keep thinking about is the Harvard-owned area. That's the ideal spot in my mind for an Olympic village. One can build as dense as anyone wants and won't overwhelm as there's nobody to overwhelm. Heck, it doesn't have to do the modular thing, it can be then sold (or built with aid) to Harvard as new dorms with some as new residential towers where it density won't affect Allston. BU would probably be interested too.
 
Couldn't you set up a plan for Beacon Yards to be the village. There is going to have to be some state funds to straighten the pike and you will have pretty good transit access and rationale for a Worcester line DMU inside 128. The area is close to everything, but also isolated enough to be made secure. Then there is enough infrastructure for the area to be a good mix of potential BU, Harvard students as well as mixed in residential. I think 20k more housing units in a spot close to the highway and near a frequent DMU spot and walkable to the green line is good for the city to absorb but also in a way and timing that make the "Olympic Cost" a marginal cost to a more lasting element of the city.

I don't like the idea of a modular village. Then the entire cost is something that is just for the Olympics and serves no long term good for the city. What's the point of that, for some cool city backdrops for NBC? they do that during pats games.
 
I don't like the idea of a modular village. Then the entire cost is something that is just for the Olympics and serves no long term good for the city. What's the point of that, for some cool city backdrops for NBC? they do that during pats games.

Modular doesn't mean it would be torn down and thrown away, it would be disassembled and reassembled around the metro area. 1000 units go to Southie. 1000 units to North Point. 1000 units to Roxbury, 2000 units to Inner Belt. Etc, etc spread the love. I think neighborhoods and municipalities would be excited to have a piece of Olympic legacy. Especially if it were designated as 100% affordable and exclusively TOD.

I think the notion that in every corner of Boston you could recognize a building that contributed to improving affordability, sustainability, and revitalization is a great selling point to both NIMBYs and those demanding a piece of the action.
 
Can we leave the "scary density is evil" talk to the idiotic NIMBYs, please?

We're supposed to know better.
 
Don't forget about White Stadium in Franklin Park, which seats 10,000 and could easily have temporary seating added to double that amount.
Especially since it's rehab is already one of Fish's pet projects.
 
Modular doesn't mean it would be torn down and thrown away, it would be disassembled and reassembled around the metro area. 1000 units go to Southie. 1000 units to North Point. 1000 units to Roxbury, 2000 units to Inner Belt. Etc, etc spread the love. I think neighborhoods and municipalities would be excited to have a piece of Olympic legacy. Especially if it were designated as 100% affordable and exclusively TOD.

I think the notion that in every corner of Boston you could recognize a building that contributed to improving affordability, sustainability, and revitalization is a great selling point to both NIMBYs and those demanding a piece of the action.

CRAZY HOUSING PITCHES! You think they will just truck a bunch of units and stack them up in southie? If we can fit that many people in a place, do it. It's not like housing isn't a long term problem in every neighborhood. I think this is more a way to keep neighborhood nimbys off their back for the time being.
 
In my mind for dorms. The area I keep thinking about is the Harvard-owned area. That's the ideal spot in my mind for an Olympic village. One can build as dense as anyone wants and won't overwhelm as there's nobody to overwhelm. Heck, it doesn't have to do the modular thing, it can be then sold (or built with aid) to Harvard as new dorms with some as new residential towers where it density won't affect Allston. BU would probably be interested too.

The IOC won't approve a proposal where dorm facilities are re-used for athletes, and the reason is twofold: ego and security. I don't think the IOC is desperate enough for the US to host an Olympics to keep athletes in college dorm rooms if Paris, Qatar or Istanbul is willing to build all new and shiny. The quality of the purpose-built Sochi housing might change the perception that new is better (StuVi at BU is certainly nicer than the Sochi village), but I wouldn't count on it.

The IOC also wants a very controlled environment for athletes, in part because of Munich and in part because of the natural concerns of having a lot of high-profile people in one place. A campus with controllable entrances and exits and a non-integrated plan - Wellesley College, say - could theoretically satisfy them, but forget about selling them on Harvard or BU. That doesn't mean the dorms are useless, however, as they'll be incredibly important for housing volunteers, the massive temporary service workforce and members of the press (again, see Sochi for how bad that can get if it get away from you).

I've thought for a while that using Seaport Square or NorthPoint as a temporary village is an idea with some promise. If you can tell the IOC that the rooms will have to be nice since they'll be sold as semi-luxury condos after the games, and that the development has solid financing and a good business case anyway, that might be more compelling than prior efforts to sell them on Athletes' Village cum condo developments (Chicago, anyone?)

Generally, I don't like modulars. For anything. Basically, a modular is a permanent building which is built to be picked up and moved because you need the land. Since it's meant to be permanent somewhere else, it's not inherently less expensive to construct, and it can be more expensive because it has to be designed for disassembly and reassembly. Plus, it's a bunch of labor and negotiations to move all that stuff after the fact - NIMBYs refusing to take it and such.

In general, things should be permanent (the village housing) on a sensible site or fully temporary. John Fish listed 3 venues that Boston doesn't have - a big stadium, a swimming center and a velodrome - to which I'd add a tennis center. Atlanta got Georgia State to build their swimming center for them, and between NU, Harvard and MIT somebody must want one. The other 3 are going to have to be temporary facilities, likely on a single big plot, and the Harvard/Beacon Park land is, IMO, the best place for them. Of course, that doesn't address the other temporary venues every host has to build, like a beach volleyball stadium or a whitewater course (though I wonder if they'd accept doing that in a real river in Western Mass or New Hampshire...).

This brings us to the infrastructure. Don't even start trying to tie in things that don't serve the Games directly, as that will lead to allegations of corruption and significant waste. Even if SCR wasn't a waste in general, it would be a waste as a tack-on for the Olympics (the guy at the meeting seems to have just recycled some MassDOT planning slides that listed all their planned projects). The highway projects (93/95 on both ends and A/B) were mentioned because MassDOT has now fully committed to doing them by 2024. They don't need the Olympics, they'll happen anyway, as will SCR, DMU-on-Fairmount and GLX.

Focus your energy on things that actually need the help. If you put the stadium at Beacon Park, you can tie in DMUs to Riverside and South Station expansion. If you put stuff at Suffolk Downs or Wonderland, that might get you Red/Blue Connector, but probably not Lynn. Roslindale Orange might be sellable if you tie it to events at NU near Ruggles. Hosting lots of preliminary soccer in Foxboro could be an impetus for double-tracking and permanent service to Patriot Place (and perhaps for some Route 1 capacity work).

Bear in mind also that part of having a successful and admirable Olympics in Boston is placing events in facilities we have near infrastructure we also already have. It makes more sense to place BMX or Whitewater near Wachusett than in NH, for example, because the CR line is already in place to get spectators and press out there. If you place a venue in a place where a project MUST happen for it to function, don't think that means the project will actually happen. All you'll get is a big SNAFU when the project fails.
 

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