Boston 2024

FK4 said:
There is a lot of questionable things going on with these renders. First, all parking lots in this area of the city are covered up by green space even though I find it unlikely that Gillette or Castle Island are giving up their parking lots. That makes it hard to gauge what exactly in this render is legit and what is only in there to make it look pretty
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I'm not sure why anyone would think these renders are "legit". They're legit insofar as they are concepts put out by the official Boston 2024. They're entirely conceptual, not actually anything that's been studied in depth or planned out, or anything.
 
With a "Midtown", and a "Downtown", where is "Uptown"?

For a city that has four different Washington Streets, sowing the seeds for further geographic confusion is hardly a welcome development.
 
The loop track itself was in place by the late 1930s (on a 1938 aerial) though not too far before then. Use of the space inside for business happened between the 1955 and 1969 aerials.
 
With a "Midtown", and a "Downtown", where is "Uptown"?

For a city that has four different Washington Streets, sowing the seeds for further geographic confusion is hardly a welcome development.

Real estate agents already call DTX "midtown" so it seems odd that they're trying to make another one.

The idea of any city organized differently from NYC having uptowns, midtowns and downtowns is specious anyway. "Downtown" has just come to mean the Central Business District in cities. Boston, which spreads out like a fan from the old Shawmut core can't geographically be structured that way. It's stupid for people to try to shoehorn NYC geographic labels here.
 
New York or New Orleans... The latter has also claimed to be the origin of downtown and uptown... Even though nyc dominates the claim to it. I don't care, but it's another city that has a very legitimate claim to use of the term. As does any city spread out linearly along a river. Midtown would logically be the back bay, and uptown allston. But yeah boston isn't really string along the river like Nola or nyc.
 
short answer: 6,000 of the 16,500 beds turned over to UMass Boston for dorms, other parts of it turned into mixed use neighborhood. I think I saw some reference in some article (sorry, forget the link) that the idea was floated of some of the housing that was above and beyond AMB's needs would be relocated. I wish I could remember where I saw that.

Housing for UMass Boston & a market rate neighborhood. It's actually a brilliant idea and opportunity to build up density near a new JFK/UMass Station.

Thanks. This should definitely happen with or without the Olympics.

(Anyone feel like digging out he master plan for this area put out a few years ago?)
 
Considering that this discussion will last at least the next two years and a reasonably likely possibility the next nine years, I propose it's time to open an entire dedicated forum area for it. Threads to start could include venues, infrastructure, planning/community process and the ever favorite yea-or-nea-or-undecided poll thread.

I already see this single thread in DABB being confusing and insufficient... Just sayin.
 
Considering that this discussion will last at least the next two years and a reasonably likely possibility the next nine years, I propose it's time to open an entire dedicated forum area for it. Threads to start could include venues, infrastructure, planning/community process and the ever favorite yea-or-nea-or-undecided poll thread.

I already see this single thread in DABB being confusing and insufficient... Just sayin.

This thread definitely shouldn't be in DABB anymore. Pretty crazy though how all of this theorizing we did is becoming a reality!
 
It might not be worth it yet, but I'd venture the Olympics should have their own sub forum. Otherwise it's going to clog up new developments, and be spread into metro Boston too.g either way though, this thread should eventually be locked and new threads created
 
It might not be worth it yet, but I'd venture the Olympics should have their own sub forum. Otherwise it's going to clog up new developments, and be spread into metro Boston too.g either way though, this thread should eventually be locked and new threads created

I'd say if Boston actually gets the bid, then it would be a great idea to give the Olympics a sub-forum because the developments will actually be constructed. Until then, I think it's ok to have this catch-all thread. Will the designs really develop enough to warrant separate threads before 2017?
 
Here's a question, if the Olympic Stadium is planned to hold 60,000 seats, do you guys think it would be better if they held the opening and closing ceremonies at the larger Gillette Stadium? I don't know that they would because I imagine there might be an issue with transportation and such. At the same time, I wonder if there's a higher revenue potential at Gillette.
 
Here's a question, if the Olympic Stadium is planned to hold 60,000 seats, do you guys think it would be better if they held the opening and closing ceremonies at the larger Gillette Stadium? I don't know that they would because I imagine there might be an issue with transportation and such. At the same time, I wonder if there's a higher revenue potential at Gillette.

The single most important event at the Olympic Stadium is the opening ceremony. Track and field is practically an afterthought in comparison. Not to mention that the whole theme of our plan is a walkable Games with the city as the Olympic Park. You can't put the centerpiece out at the end of an anemic commuter rail line surrounded by an ocean of parking and still call your plan walking/transit oriented.

The opening and closing ceremonies will be held in the main Olympic Stadium.
 
Here's a question, if the Olympic Stadium is planned to hold 60,000 seats, do you guys think it would be better if they held the opening and closing ceremonies at the larger Gillette Stadium? I don't know that they would because I imagine there might be an issue with transportation and such. At the same time, I wonder if there's a higher revenue potential at Gillette.
Gillette is said to be unacceptable to the IOC.
They want their helicopter shots of the opening games to show the glistening Host City skyline.
Oh, and getting the athletes there would be a hassle.
 
Here's a question, if the Olympic Stadium is planned to hold 60,000 seats, do you guys think it would be better if they held the opening and closing ceremonies at the larger Gillette Stadium? I don't know that they would because I imagine there might be an issue with transportation and such. At the same time, I wonder if there's a higher revenue potential at Gillette.

Gillette holds 68,756 according to their website. the intertubes via googlesearch tells me opening ceremony tix at London went for $2,550. I found that factoid on the internet so it has to be true, right? That's a boost of a bit more than $22M in ticket revenues, as compared to a 60,000 seat stadium. I'm not even going to try to guestimate out the transport differences because even if there weren't any, $22M is peanuts in the context of the overall budget.

Also, TV broadcasting concerns drive sports staging decisions to a depressing degree. Exhibit A are the annoying dead times at a hockey game while the folks at home run to the john. Just a true buzz kill in the arena. Same is true for the Olympics in ways that are probably opaque to us when held elsewhere, but will be obvious to us if held here in Boston.

I'm guessing TV advertisers will pay more for sweeping shots of opening ceremonies with downtown Boston and the harbor in the near background. Will that preference flow through to determine such a decision? I don't know, but I bet what the TV advertisers want will speak louder than $22M additional revenue at Gillette as compared to Widett.
 
The single most important event at the Olympic Stadium is the opening ceremony. Track and field is practically an afterthought in comparison. Not to mention that the whole theme of our plan is a walkable Games with the city as the Olympic Park. You can't put the centerpiece out at the end of an anemic commuter rail line surrounded by an ocean of parking and still call your plan walking/transit oriented.

The opening and closing ceremonies will be held in the main Olympic Stadium.

Gillette is said to be unacceptable to the IOC.
They want their helicopter shots of the opening games to show the glistening Host City skyline.
Oh, and getting the athletes there would be a hassle.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I agree that it should be held in Boston, but before the bid doc came out, I assumed that the Olympic Stadium would be closer to the 70k-80k range. It's seeing the lower capacity that prompted that question. However, I don't agree that T&F is an afterthought in comparison. The most highly-watched events at the games are athletics, football, and aquatics. No single session will draw as much as the ceremonies, but those three sports represent a sizable portion of revenue.
 
The opening and closing ceremonies in the Olympic Stadium are the hallmark of the games. I want that experience right in Boston. I would absolutely not want Gillette, in the middle of nowhere, on display representing "Boston."
 
I agree that it should be held in Boston, but before the bid doc came out, I assumed that the Olympic Stadium would be closer to the 70k-80k range. It's seeing the lower capacity that prompted that question. However, I don't agree that T&F is an afterthought in comparison.

I agree on t&f's draw at the Games, and also that opening ceremonies should be at the downtown site.

On stadium sizing, track and field is the huge fly in the Olympics ointment for stadium construction and post-Games re-use and post-Games white elephant avoidance. The track layout is way too wide for football or soccer, so those teams, in any city, don't want any stadium that was built to handle track and field. Oregon university has one stadium for football, another for track and field. Their t&f stadium has about 10K regular seating and can expand to about double that for when they host NCAA championships, which they've done as recently as 2014. That's a college that takes t&f very seriously, but their capacity is way below an Olympics stadium, even when they host NCAAs. And they built something entirely separate (and much bigger) for the football program.

So even a smaller, 60K capacity stadium that is wide enough for t&f is useless to the most likely users post-Games. If you want to implement the partial re-use idea, like has been bandied about for the Revolution, I think you'd want to not just lower the upper reaches, but move one whole side in closer. That's probably a half-demolish and rebuild job, unless it's actually practical to have half a 60K seat stadium be movable. That sounds like a stretch.

The IOC, at least in their official rhetoric, has clued in to this problem, hence their new guidelines for a smaller main stadium, not to mention temporary stadiums or the stadium-reduction concept. It isn't about t&f's relative draw during the Games, it's about the avoidance of white elephants after the Games. the 20K delta is a tiny sliver of the TV audience anyhow.
 

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