Boston Properties Office Tower | 888 Boylston Street | Back Bay

Re: 888 Boylston Street

11 to 19....come on that isn't bad at all....what is the big deal? That is a reasonable height for that area, I think 11 was a little too short, but 19 is ideal.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

Bankers & Tradesman said:
Tower Opponents Refuse to Back Down
By Thomas Grillo
Reporter

888BoylstonStretail.jpg

Rendering courtesy Boston Properties
This artist?s rendering depicts the ground-floor view of the proposed $115
million office tower for 888 Boylston St.


A week after Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino called for a compromise over a proposed office tower at the Prudential Center, one neighborhood group says it won?t bend.

Boston Properties? controversial plan for a $115 million high-rise at 888 Boylston St. has pitted the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay against the developer. NABB has organized its opposition among members of the Prudential Project Advisory Committee (PruPAC). The 41-member panel was founded to advise City Hall on development projects at the Pru.

The project, to be built between the Mandarin Oriental Hotel and the John B. Hynes Veterans Memorial Convention, has been in the works for years. In 2002, the Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) approved the office building at 11 stories. But the 287,000-square-foot high-rise never broke ground. Today, the developer is seeking approval for a 19-story skyscraper.

Elliott Laffer, PruPAC?s vice chairman and NABB?s representative on the committee, said he sees no reason to compromise. ?Eleven stories are what?s in the guidelines and 11 stories are what Boston Properties said they would build six years ago,? he said. ?I haven?t seen any reason to change it.?

Jacquelin Yessian, NABB?s chairwoman, declined to comment on Menino?s offer for a truce. But in an op-ed column in The Boston Courant last year, she wrote that while the 11-story building called for in the master plan would be an asset to the Pru, ?we strongly oppose any building that would exceed this height.?

While Yessian has rejected requests for interviews, she has galvanized the support of other neighborhoods to fight any additional height for the tower. She has coordinated private meetings to convince neighborhood associations represented on PruPAC to join NABB in their opposition.

But Steven Wolf, a PruPAC member representing the Fenway Community Development Corp., a nonprofit affordable housing developer, defended those gatherings, noting that PruPAC business was not transacted at the two sessions.

?It?s hard for me to believe that the developers are not sitting down and talking privately about this project,? he said. ?These sessions were intended as educational to build better connections between neighborhoods. I guess I can understand how this would be perceived as something nefarious, but nothing has gone on that anyone can object to.?

?It?s Not Helpful?

NABB?s efforts appear to be working. Kathleen Emrich, a PruPAC member who represents the Ellis Neighborhood Association, said while the Boylston Street building will not directly impact her South End neighborhood, she is supporting NABB?s opposition to an additional 9 stories.

?We have to stick together,? she said. ?This doesn?t directly affect our neighborhood, but we want to be supportive of the Back Bay where it will have the most impacts. There could come a time when a building does impact us and we would seek the support of other neighborhoods.?

Nancy Restuccia, a PruPAC member who represents the St. Botolph Neighborhood Association, said while she is not opposed to 19 stories, she too wants to be supportive of NABB?s position.

Still, Meg Mainzer-Cohen, president of the Back Bay Association and a PruPAC member, said the recent meetings organized by NABB that excluded nonresidential members are contrary to the group?s mission.

?The point of PruPAC is to work together to reach consensus,? she said. ?It?s not helpful to have NABB organize resident groups to try to get everyone to walk in lockstep. How would the residential groups respond if the business community did that??

Wolf explained that neighborhood resistance to Boston Properties for increased height to 888 Boylston St. comes from concerns about the Mandarin Hotel. The 14-story, mixed-use development is scheduled to open this summer next to Lord & Taylor on lower Boylston Street.

?People feel they got burned last time around,? Wolf said. ?Lots of people are saying the Mandarin ended up being too big in relation to the street. It was technically approved at 150 feet, but mechanicals on the roof can add another 20 feet. I don?t know if anyone actually checked the height to see if they are in compliance.?

Jessica Shumaker, a BRA spokeswoman, noted that the Mandarin was approved by the city following a ?lengthy public review process and support from PruPAC.?

Michael A. Cantalupa, senior vice president of Boston Properties, said he would not comment on Menino?s suggestion until he had a chance to speak with the mayor. But in public meetings last fall, he said a lower height would not work given rising construction costs.

Walter Salvi, the PruPAC representative of NSTAR, an electric and gas utility company based at the Prudential Center, said a compromise on height makes sense. ?NABB has a very specific point of view on keeping the height at 11 stories and I respect their opinion,? he said. ?But if alliances are being formed among neighborhood on PruPAC, it takes ?not in my backyard? to a new level. That said, from a political standpoint, the mayor is seeking a compromise so everyone walks away a winner.?

Anthony Gordon, the PruPAC member who represents the Boylston Street Association, a group of merchants along the retail district, said while he supports 19 stories, a compromise is likely.

?A tall tower is good for business and won?t have any detrimental effects on the neighborhood because the building is set back,? he said. ?If Boston Properties hadn?t taken over the Pru, it would still be in chaos and we would not have the revitalized mall. The Pru is in good hands and I believe they?re capable of finishing off the center in front of Boylston Street.?
NLA
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

Imagine if they had put half this much effort into saving the SC&L building. :(
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

^ Well, they're busy with this, and they can only do one good deed at a time.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

Maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight, but I wonder if Drucker was was the developer of this building, he would get his 19 floors?
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

^ Well, they're busy with this, and they can only do one good deed at a time.

Haha, well then let's back in a few 1,000 footers while they're preoccupied
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

this is perhaps the first and only time I've ever agreed with the nimbys...I see no reason to disavow the previous height agreement. The economics plea is nonsense, this is simply a gambit to maximize investment return. Eleven stories is perfectly acceptable at this location. In fact, it is probably better from an urban design perspective.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

this is perhaps the first and only time I've ever agreed with the nimbys...I see no reason to disavow the previous height agreement. The economics plea is nonsense, this is simply a gambit to maximize investment return. Eleven stories is perfectly acceptable at this location. In fact, it is probably better from an urban design perspective.

If they had started building it, thats one thing. If they had been on floor 4 and said "hey, we want to stop at 19 not 11". thats not good. But the 11 story one never happened. Its like a brand new building, in a new economic reality.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

An agreement was made. The developer should hold to it. Nothing has changed in the Back Bay to justify abrogating it.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

As I said before, this debate scratches at deeper problems with the zoning code and the permitting process in Boston. Again, the permitting process and zoning code are irreparably broken. But this project falls within a specific area that was part of a specific plan between two specific parties. That plan was based upon what was acceptable from a massing standpoint for the developer and the neighborhood. To me this is like the Red Sox going to JD Drew at the end of last season and saying, "We don't think you really deserve that $14 million contract. We are going to pay you $8 million instead." Whatever you may think of JD Drew or the height of that building, an agreement is an agreement and it should be honored.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

To keep with the sports analogy:
It's more like the Patriots going to Brady three years into his five year deal and telling him they are having salary cap issues and if he wants them to be able to sign players like Wes Welker and Randy Moss, he'll need to restructure his contract.

Sure, he could say no, but because he understands what is better for the team (re:city) is in the long run better for him (re:residents) he agreed.

Summary: Tom Brady is smarter than the folks in NABB.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

I have to say for the NIMBYs in other neighborhoods, they should really stay out of it. As they said, this is not impacting their neighborhood. If the people who are affected do not want this tower, their voices is already being heard and you don't need any more than that. if we can all stick our noses in someplace where it is not needed or belong, I would have asked people living in NYC to vouch for skyscrapers in Boston even though it does not affect NYC.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

Here is the thing about these Nimbys that I just can't stand. When you decide to live in a big city you have to recognize that it's bigger than you. You have to buy into what it is. I really don't think you should have much say as to whether an 11 or 19 story tower gets built a street or two over from you. Plus use a little common sense, this project will not affect their lives at all. It is already a busy built up area. When you compare it to the neighborhood that it will enter, it's increase in traffic is very marginal. It is not their back yard (literaly) to be saying Oh no you don't, it is the general publics'.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

NIMBYs are not just a big city phenomenon and they've probably caused much more damage in suburban Boston than they have in the Back Bay. In my opinion, it's much more odious for the residents and municipal government of a place like Weston (which is only 10 miles west of the Back Bay) to require new housing to be built on lots of 2 acres or more when the market could support townhouse style development there (or at the very least the density you find in East Arlington).

People in Weston want to preserve the rural character of their town (even though it's located at the geographic center of one of the nation's largest metropolitan areas).

People in the Back Bay want to preserve the 19th century character of their city neighbohrood (even though were already well into the 21st century).

The difference is one of the places already functions very well as a sustainably developed and vibrant place, while the other does not.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

Does anyone know what's kept the BRA from even THINKING about rezoning certain areas of the city to intesify use rather than getting stuck in a pattern of letting through all these variances? These things only drag out the process and exacerbate conflict. Any process anywhere that looks like this is going to produce these nasty political scenarios, I only partially blame the 'nimbys'. Does anyone in city hall not think incrementally? What is this site zoned for presently? I'm assuming the developer can't build 19 stories as-of-right.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

The sports analogies dont make sense.

Your analogy is for this scenario:

Builder starts construction, is on floor 6, and says "we think were actually building 19, not 11, and if you dont let us, we will leave this half finished building abandoned."

Reality:

A building was proposed here 10 years ago and approved 7 years ago. That project failed, so heres a new project, which differs from the original in that it is taller.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

The project didn't "fail". The approved zoning from 10 years ago was a masterplan for the prudential center complex. I work as a real estate developer. I can assure you that if this project can work at 19 stories it can work at 11. (This is not true in every case) Boston Properties purchased the site years ago and, as far as we can tell, the Pru seems to be a profitable asset. That said, the purchase price for this particular development is a sunk cost- it is fixed. There are no significant economies of scale to be gained by building the extra floors. Either existing rental rates and market demand justify this project or they don't.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

"People two streets over shouldn't have a say in what gets built ..."

"People have to buy into what it is ..."

Yes, and what it is is 11 stories.

I love growth. In this one specific case, though, I see no reason to change what was agreed to, half a decade ago.

The residential tower around the corner? Sure, why not? It fills an empty space. Plus, a lot less people than in an office building.

I know, I've said this all before.

I'll be quiet, now.
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

This thread hasn't had a post in over a year now. Was it replaced with another thread?

I found the following two renderings on http://bhpdevelopment.wordpress.com/, a site I stumbled on. There have been some complaints about are large part of the plaza remaining, but it looks very nice in the rendering, especially with the Hynes renovation in mind. It is currently underutilized, but with outdoor restaurant seating and a couple retail entrances (as pictured), I think it could be great.

xxxxxhullseagull2008051.jpg

xxxxxhullseagull2008056.jpg


Also, here is an article from six months ago about the height being reduced from 19 floors to 17: http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/08/19/proposed_tower_at_prudential_center_scaled_back/

Sorry if this has all been posted in another thread. If not, does anyone have any more recent updates?
 
Re: 888 Boylston Street

With the economic collapse, this project is starting to look like the girl at the end of the bar at 2 A.M.
 

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