Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

No offence to a recent immigrant to the HUB

SF has its Goods and also its Bads

Architecturally -- when it is good it is very good Chinatown, Golden Gate) when it is Bad -- e.g. Moscone it Stinks

However -- From the intellectual standpoint there is no comparison if you take the Greater Boston area it is the single largest collection of brainpower on the planet -- consider just the stretch of Mass Ave. between Porter Sq. and the River -- you can walk it in about 30 minutes (or 5 minutes on the T) -- you have two of the top U's in the World (say in the Top 10 to avoid gross volume of arguments) and a couple of other colleges / U's as minor accompaniment

While Boston U and Northeastern are hardly H and MIT -- they are major internationally known in their own right and they are nearly back to back (although one two different branches of the Green Line) with the MFA in the middle and a dozen smaller places right next to them

There are many others -- but I would call attention to the potential of UMass Boston -- which is just really in its nascent development state and only about 10 minutes from MIT on the Red Line

Boston / Cambridge IS the Hub of global Innovation -- SF actually mostly depends on Berkeley and Stanford for any street cred

What Boston could use is a branch of the Red Line starting at UMass Boston near JFK Library (you could call the new station JFK/UMass and rename the existing one something like Kosciusko) the new branch would cross under Southy (stop near to Castle Island), stop next to the Cruise Terminal / Design Center; stop behind the BCEC and then go down Summer St. to a stop at Museum Wharf and connecting to the existing line at South Station
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

blade_bltz said:
Uhhh...it's been my distinct impression since moving out here a few years ago that the exact opposite is true. SF always seems to outdo Boston in every conceivable way. A few things that immediately come to mind:

1. Jass posted a picture of Mission Bay in the Fan Pier thread. It's like the Seaport...except with light rail, and with hundreds of housing units u/c and (thousands more on the way that won't mysteriously get converted to commercial by the mayor).

2. As dzh pointed out, SF completed two 650' towers, Millennium Tower (2009) and One Rincon Hill (2008), along with two 450 footers in 2008.

3. Where Boston puts up 3-4 story infill, SF puts up 6-8 story infill....in 3-4 story neighborhoods. And lots of it.

4. Where Boston is overflowing with college kids, SF has super-educated recent college grads. Who actually spend money on stuff.

5. Boston has a master plan for massive housing development (4100 units) on a peninsula in the south eastern part of the city, Columbia Point. SF has a master plan for a much more massive housing development (10,500 units) on a peninsula in the south eastern part of the city, Hunters Point. And it's starting in July.

6. Boston's version of an infrastructure boondoggle is the Big Dig (a highway project), or the Silver Line (BRT). SF's version of an infrastructure boondoggle is building a Central Subway for the LRT (from 4th and King to Chinatown and North Beach). What I would give for such a "boondoggle" in Boston...
Click to expand...

You left out Treasure Island. San Francisco has a lot more available land to work with than Boston does, so its unfair to compare the two in that regard.

San Francisco doesn't have anywhere near the land-owning non-profits that Boston has; the non-profits are a big economic engine in Boston though.

The economics of San Francisco are driving African Americans out, which is allowing their old neighborhoods to be redeveloped. Percentage of blacks living in San Francisco is down to 6 percent. The percentage is 4x times higher in Boston. Conversely, there are about 4x more Asians living in San Francisco than in Boston (percentage basis).

It is as difficult, if not more so, to build tall in San Francisco than it is in Boston. San Francisco sometimes inhibits development and growth by referendum, which is harder to overcome than mayoral fiat. San Francisco voted by initiative to basically ban new shadows on parks.

http://www.sf-planning.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=8442

The grass is not always greener, though the weed may be.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

stellarfun said:
You left out Treasure Island. San Francisco has a lot more available land to work with than Boston does, so its unfair to compare the two in that regard.

San Francisco doesn't have anywhere near the land-owning non-profits that Boston has; the non-profits are a big economic engine in Boston though.

The economics of San Francisco are driving African Americans out, which is allowing their old neighborhoods to be redeveloped. Percentage of blacks living in San Francisco is down to 6 percent. The percentage is 4x times higher in Boston. Conversely, there are about 4x more Asians living in San Francisco than in Boston (percentage basis).

It is as difficult, if not more so, to build tall in San Francisco than it is in Boston. San Francisco sometimes inhibits development and growth by referendum, which is harder to overcome than mayoral fiat. San Francisco voted by initiative to basically ban new shadows on parks.

http://www.sf-planning.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=8442

The grass is not always greener, though the weed may be.
Click to expand...

And yet their architecture designs are far more superior and far taller than Boston's. Why's that? Because developers know what a blowhard the mayor is, how difficult the BRA is, and how whiny the NIMBYs are and how much power they hold. Why do business with a city where the NIMBYs, mayor, and the BRA dictates the design of the structure? That's what professional architects are for. If it is true that it is more difficult to build tall in SF than Boston, then at least in SF the developers have the power to dictate the design, not the mayor, not the NIMBYs, and not the BRA. It may be a more difficult process, but at least the buildings they designed has a chance to see the light of day.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

to Gooseberry -- I actually did it in one hour -- but it was a walking tour
30 minutes might be fast for some and you can definitely not stop to smell the roses

to Blade_bitz -- a lot of the college kids that Boston / Cambridge is overflowing with are grad students -- many working on Ph.D.'s -- I think that qualifies as Supereducated in most venues -- and they do spend money as well

If Boston's Innovation economy has an Achilles heel -- it is the high cost of housing for the recently supereducated who typically have the choice of a long commute or moving out of the area -- however, that problem can be addressed by the cities involved making it possible for developers to provide a range of attractive housing options including downtown

A lot of that means cutting taxes and regulation at all levels of government -- in the long run, BOS, SF, Austin are not so much competing with each other as they are globally competing with London, Singapore, Tokyo, Bangalore, Shanghai, etc., -- the top 20 or so planetary centers for innovation
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

KentXie said:
And yet their architecture designs are far more superior and far taller than Boston's. Why's that? Because developers know what a blowhard the mayor is, how difficult the BRA is, and how whiny the NIMBYs are and how much power they hold. Why do business with a city where the NIMBYs, mayor, and the BRA dictates the design of the structure? That's what professional architects are for. If it is true that it is more difficult to build tall in SF than Boston, then at least in SF the developers have the power to dictate the design, not the mayor, not the NIMBYs, and not the BRA. It may be a more difficult process, but at least the buildings they designed has a chance to see the light of day.
Click to expand...

Have you ever been to San Francisco?

One Rincon Hill, not much love shown. Read the comments.

http://www.socketsite.com/archives/...p_to_foreclosure_flip_and_five_others_at.html

Transbay Terminal
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/...al_plans_revised_refined_and_unveiled_to.html

Again read the comments, about how Transbay is going to screw the people who paid gazillions for their condos in the new Millennium Tower on Mission St. And OMG, a new park on top of Transbay and thus the shadow law comes into play again.




showimage.aspx


^^^The planned development of Treasure Island. One tower, a few stubs, and lots of green parks.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

That is way too much parkland for a development that size.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

stellarfun said:
Have you ever been to San Francisco?

One Rincon Hill, not much love shown. Read the comments.

http://www.socketsite.com/archives/...p_to_foreclosure_flip_and_five_others_at.html

Transbay Terminal
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/...al_plans_revised_refined_and_unveiled_to.html

Again read the comments, about how Transbay is going to screw the people who paid gazillions for their condos in the new Millennium Tower on Mission St. And OMG, a new park on top of Transbay and thus the shadow law comes into play again.




showimage.aspx


^^^The planned development of Treasure Island. One tower, a few stubs, and lots of green parks.
Click to expand...
I didn't say anything about how people felt about the building after it was built and after it failed to sell due to the downturn in the economy. I was speaking about, even though SF may have a harder process to overcome, the buildings and the designs are of better quality than anything built in Boston in the past decade.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

datadyne007 said:
That is way too much parkland for a development that size.
Click to expand...

Supposedly the goal is to have a self-sustaining community and part of that parkland is actually going to be dedicated to a farm. Maybe that might require more land than usual? That said, it's in the middle of the bay away from other people so I don't see why they don't build it even denser.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Developer’s new plan for garage site is well-received
By Jerry Kronenberg
Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - Updated 2 hours ago


A Boston developer unveiled plans to turn the 4-acre Government Center Garage site into a seven-building complex of offices, residences, hotels and stores.

“We’re obviously recreating (the parcel) to make it a much better and pedestrian-friendly place,” HYM Investment Group managing director Tom O’Brien said yesterday in presenting details of the project to the Boston Redevelopment Authority. “We’re really excited about that.”

HYM, which has tried for years to redevelop the 45-year-old garage, last month announced plans to scale back an original $2.2 billion plan that ran into regulatory opposition.

The company previously wanted to build two skyscrapers — one 42 stories high and the other 52 stories — but the BRA and Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino opposed that plan’s size and height.

To win them over, HYM removed the development’s original project leader and replaced him with O’Brien, a former BRA chief. O’Brien spent some 18 months revamping the project.

The revised plan released for the first time yesterday calls for preserving much of the existing garage but surrounding it with:

• eight- and 45-story office buildings with 1.2 million square feet of space;

• two hotels, one 28 stories and the other 22, with a total of 600 rooms;

• three residential buildings hosting 750 apartments and condos and ranging in height from 12 to 38 stories;

• 50,000 square feet of retail space.

O’Brien said the proposal will bring life back to downtown Boston’s Haymarket/Bullfinch Triangle area, a once-bustling neighborhood all but dismantled as part of 1960s “urban renewal” efforts.

“This area was once a huge hub of activity, and we think it can be again,” he said.

O’Brien said the first building, a 38-story residential tower, would be finished in four or five years and cost about $140 million.

Advisory board members and local residents appeared to endorse the scaled-down plan.

“It’s really a wonderful proposal,” board member Francine Gannon said. “I really commend you (and) I think you’re doing a good job.”

Added local resident Jim Bath: “I believe that this is a good project — as opposed to the other one, which was not suitable.”


Link
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Too stubby. This is the prime spot for height. It's right in the center of the peninsula and it's the most isolated section of Boston in regards to flightpaths. Tallest is only 45 stories? And the next tallest is 38?

I have a few words for Menino if I ever catch him on the street. He needs to stop dicking around and stringing along the BRA.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

How much you want to bet that only one tower will be built before the entire project stalls.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

What does this mean that they are preserving "much" of the garage?

Huh?
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

^Yeah, that was the most disturbing part of the article...
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

If they could stretch that 45 story tower into at least 615', we would have a new 3rd tallest... It's Boston, can't hope for much until the mayor dies, but extending the skyline towards North Station with another IP sized tower would be ok...

Someday, a tall tower will be proposed here and they won't be forced to lop off any height. (nah, probably not, I'm still sleepy)
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

^Yes, that would be OK, but we are running out of spots for legit 700'+ skycrapers and this one of the spots that makes the most sense for one.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

JSic said:
^Yes, that would be OK, but we are running out of spots for legit 700'+ skycrapers and this one of the spots that makes the most sense for one.
Click to expand...

Trust me I know this all too well, and I am more for height (that makes sense, not just throwing up a 1500' tower among 500'-600' towers) than basically anyone. That being said, we haven't had a 600' tower built since 1987, and nothing OVER that since the 70's. It would be about time we got ANYTHING new and substantial.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

If any of the garage is going to be kept, I hope the part built over Congress Street is still demolished.
 
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