Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Damn, I have a ton of homework, but I just can't stop watching! Great meeting/presentation! Love the ambitious 600ft office tower. It also amazed me how no one could remember the heights even after he said it 3 times. God bless him for his patience.

Edit: and give up the school already. How much more do you want?
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Does the part of the garage that is on top of Congress Street get removed? I don't care if the rest of it stays, as long as that part goes.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Ron Newman said:
Does the part of the garage that is on top of Congress Street get removed? I don't care if the rest of it stays, as long as that part goes.
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Yes, of course. That is the whole point of the project. The entire eastern half of the Garage comes down. That part of the garage isn't demolished until phase 1A, 1B, 1C, and 1D are completed on top of the existing garage (probably 15-20 years from the start). Pretty awesome engineering techniques. The west part of the garage stays and gets hidden by the new residential towers and retail.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Eh, not of course. The current proposal keeps the garage until some unspecified time when phase 2 of the pipe dream goes forward.

When pressed of to give a time frame for completion the development team was evasive. In other words, don't bet on it.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

briv said:
Eh, not of course. The current proposal keeps the garage until some unspecified time when phase 2 of the pipe dream goes forward.

When pressed of to give a time frame for completion the development team was evasive. In other words, don't bet on it.
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As he said, the phased process is how we don't end up with a hole in the ground. Yeah, they could just tear the thing down, but what would that leave us with? No parking at all, as that part of the garage is crucial, and a hole in the ground.

And yes, I noticed he was evading the scheduling issue, but he was smart by not making any comments because those words would be set in STONE for the rest of the life of this project. When the project ends up taking 50 years they will come back and say "you originally quoted this as 20." It's so early in the process. Let them actually do analysis about this issue and then discuss it at the next meeting when they can give official numbers.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

20 years? You realize this is a generation? 50 years? You realize this is the majority of the average person's life? Why do we have to wait this long to fix a so easily fixable urban planning catastrophe like the Congress St Garage? You also realize that in the span of 20 years, there are places on this planet that create modern cities from scratch who's size dwarfs Boston? But you're asking us to accept that it may take the majority of our lives to tear down a single fucking garage? Come on. Who wants to live in a city so backward?
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

briv said:
20 years? You realize this is a generation? 50 years? You realize this is the majority of the average person's life? Why do we have to wait this long to fix a so easily fixable urban planning catastrophe like the Congress St Garage? You also realize that in the span of 20 years, there are places on this planet that create modern cities from scratch who's size dwarfs Boston? But you're asking us to accept that it may take the majority of our lives to tear down a single fucking garage? Come on. Who wants to live in a city so backward?
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The plan would never be approved if tearing down the entire garage was the goal. Whether we like it or not, everyone is far too obsessed with parking. There is a concrete (some pun intended) reality here that a part of the garage must stay built and that part of the garage does not have the infrastructure to support itself (drums, proper circulation, etc). The garage needs to undergo a series of reconfigurations, which will occur in the phases as the city enjoys the completion of new towers + retail. I understand that we want to enjoy these things now now now, but this is forward planning for a much livelier future of the neighborhood. It is nice to enjoy the reward after the project is finished, but the process and willpower of the proponents is just as crucial.

**Also, I just threw out 20 years as a random number. It could certainly be shorter. It has nothing to do with this project.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

You're quite the apologist for the status quo.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

briv said:
You're quite the apologist for the status quo.
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So while all this tireless lobbying to tear down the garage is going on, the project could actually be moving along toward something that is better. We keep getting nothing in Boston and yeah, I am the kind of person that believes in most cases, something is better than nothing (ie: my opinion on the RKG).
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Why not just use the standard Boston approach?

"Of COURSE we'll save the historic garage! We'll just build around it!"
*Two weeks later*
"Our contractor made a mistake and it was structurally unsound, so the whole thing had to be demolished. Our bad"

We all know this is S.O.P. around here.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

So Im watching the video....

"2,300 spaces, and it never fills beyond 50% capacity"

Are you freaking kidding me?

I NEVER want to hear "parking in boston is hard" ever again.

Or "theres a lack of parking downtown".

North End NIMBYS? You CANNOT complain that a)this project is relevant to your interests because its so "close"
and
b) Complain about parking.

NEVER AGAIN.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

As soon as I find a job elsewhere, I'm Leaving. This. City.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

datadyne007 said:
So while all this tireless lobbying to tear down the garage is going on, the project could actually be moving along toward something that is better. We keep getting nothing in Boston and yeah, I am the kind of person that believes in most cases, something is better than nothing (ie: my opinion on the RKG).
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I agree with this sentiment in most cases, but is this really something better?

Usually when something covers a parking lot, a lot of people here complain about the lack of height, the cheap materials, etc. I think, well, it may not be great, but it's certainly an improvement. The parking lot was the problem and now the parking lot is gone.

Here, the garage is the problem. Not so much the lack of an office tower, but the actual existence of the monstrous, concrete, obstruction. The thing could be gone in a month, but instead, let's build on top of part of it and maybe at some future time, say twenty years from now (in other words, long enough for things to change, for people to forget) we'll tear down the rest. Of course we will.

This project is bullshit.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

I've come to realize when people complain about parking, they are complaining about free or cheap on street parking, which there is a short supply of, in part because it's so cheap and everyone wants to use it!

There really isn't a lack of garage parking downtown. You just have to be willing to pay for it. A lot of garages have weekend rates of $9 or $10 a day, which is a really good deal if you ask me.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Justin -- I don't think you've actually been involved in any real project (whether a $B of just adding a deck behind your house) -- if you had you'd realize that plan A, B, and C are essential as undoubtedly something is going to impede the original plan

Toss in the requirements imposed by the process for building in Boston (with a few exceptions such as Liberty and Vertex) and a project of this magnitude will take time -- and yes it might be 20+ years before the 3rd incarnation of the the last phases get finished

Think the Pru saga -- the Tower gets built and then immediately people start complaining about the exposed open air elevated strip mall without the convenient parking lot -- fast forward about 20 years -- the glass gallery gets built -- fast forward another decade Mandarin Oriental gets built -- and now it looks as if last of the Pru will be finished -- a grand sweep of time since the early 1960's -- 50 years or so -- to a functional and actually quite pleasant complex of buildings -- could it have been done better sooner -- perhaps -- are there still things which should be done to improve it -- Definitely

Now consider the Gov't Center garage -- its been there for 40 years -- if in 5 years the first few towers encapsulating it are done -- the rest might take another decade -- but -- unless the garage parking revenue suddenly gains sufficient economic value to remain as is -- the lure of the rest of the 2.5 M sq. ft. of development will drive the owners of the garage to finish the project -- and that means taking down the elevated bunker over Congress St.

By the way -- by keeping the eastern half open while complex construction is underway on the western half -- the project will clearly take longer -- but it will be much easier to finance as there is a Vertex-like revenue stream -- the few M$ per year from people parking in the garage
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Besides -- building the towers while the garage is operational will be a great project to watch from the pure engineering and project management groupy perspective

I watched while a 2nd level was added to Burlington Mall all the time with a few pedestrian detours it stayed open -- they drilled and installed massive structural columns working above the roof of the existing single level high ceiling-ed mall

These kind of projects are fun to watch -- if they produce a superior final product -- so much the better

In this respect -- with the exception of Liberty Mutual - its been quite a long time since the developer of the project had as personal a relationship with the project -- in this case the he owner of the garage is the developer -- and they are not absentee landlords -- but their office is right-there -- they see the area daily -- so 'll be willing to go out on a limb that they will take some pains to do a good job
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

whighlander said:
Besides -- building the towers while the garage is operational will be a great project to watch from the pure engineering
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He called the supercolumn diagram slide "boring" and skipped over it! (Though, judging by the questions some people were asking, none had engineering background so it would have been boring) I was like noooooo! Talk about this awesome engineering technique!
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

datadyne007 said:
He called the supercolumn diagram slide "boring" and skipped over it! (Though, judging by the questions some people were asking, none had engineering background so it would have been boring) I was like noooooo! Talk about this awesome engineering technique!
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Right-on

Especially so -- since the space underneath some parts of the garage is full of stuff (including voids for subway tunnels, etc)
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Boston Herald said:
Developer surges with giant projects
Ex-Hub official helps lead HYM development co.

By Brendan Lynch
Monday, July 25, 2011

... HYM plans to submit the project notification form for the revised Government Center Garage development to the BRA in the fall. If the seven-building, mixed-use project gets the necessary approvals in the first half of 2012, HYM expects to break ground next year.

http://bostonherald.com/business/re...ym_development_co/srvc=business&position=also
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.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

That's great and all, but SST was supposed to break ground 4 years ago.
 
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