Canopy by Hilton (née Haymarket Hotel) | Blackstone St | Parcel 9 | Greenway

[Beton Brut]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Boston history can't - perhaps shouldn't -be contained in a building. It is most impactful when walked and experienced, not curated.

Truth.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I have yet to read a description of what the museum would exhibit. Does it have anything in its collection? Does it intend to acquire stuff? Does it expect to receive donations of items of significance?

Below is a link to a description of the historical artifacts owned by the New York Historical Society. Does the proposed Boston Museum have a collection that is even a hundredth the size of the NYHS?

http://www.nyhistory.org/exhibits/category/about/56/table/paged/title

Stel -- Boston has been collecting itself for a very very long time -- a lot of the stuff is still sitting in people's houses, summer houses, farms, etc.

Many of these folks may not want to give-up the stuff -- but they will lend it. We have in Lexington a rather not so well known National Heritage Museum which has some things of its own -- but hosts many loans either individually or as small collections
www.monh.org/

The National Heritage Museum in Lexington, MA is an American history museum founded and supported by 32° Scottish Rite Freemasons

Lexington also has a Historical Society as does Concord and then there are many less well known occasionally visit-able museum collections in Greater Boston

So we know that there is a lot of Colonial and early Federal Period stuff in the burbs and probably downtown too that is not even on exhibit most of the time

Remember that nearly all of the history-themed museums around here are fixated on the decade between the Boston Massacre and the Evacuation of the Red Coats -- even the War of 1812 era only exists at the USS Constitution Museum

The Industrial Revolution was born in Watertown / Waltham
Modern Surgery and MGH
Transplants and B&W
re-attaching limbs and MGH
Mutual Funds -- old style
Mutual Funds -- new style
Telephone
modern public education
the creation of the research university
Electrification of Transit
Radar and air traffic control
the creation and molding of the land of Boston itself

Of course many of the institutions involved with some of these have museums and there are some pseudo-generic themed museums such the Charles River Museum of Industry -- but there is no single place to go for a Wikipedia-like summary of Boston -- if you are: a transient visitor here for a conference / convention; a new resident wanting to know; or a resident with vising family and friends

Boston has such a story to tell that exists outside of the War of Independence that it is a surprise that this museum doesn't already exist

 

[whighlander]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Boston history can't - perhaps shouldn't -be contained in a building. It is most impactful when walked and experienced, not curated.

Any organization that cares about Boston history should focus its efforts on funding a subsidized roster of all-season high-impact walking tours organized around neighborhoods (e.g. Back Bay, Harvard), time periods (e.g. Colonial, Victorian, Urban Renewal), and specific themes (e.g. Boston Strangler, Terraforming the Landscape). Look at the schedule for London Walks to see the kind of variety I have in mind. I know there are quite a number of walking tours of Boston available, but I don't think we've scratched the surface in terms of that potential.

Shep -- Let me preface this by the statement that I enjoy walking as a solitary pursuit, as a member of a tour and as a leader of walking tours

Of Course -- walking tours of all kinds need to be here -- and there are a proliferating number of them though most do seem to concentrate on the golden 20 years from 1770 to 1790 -- But the key to why a Boston Museum -- is:
capsule summary
and all-season

you can't walk all over to cover everything and especially in certain seasons

Sometimes you don't have the time, or your guests con't do the walking, or the weather is just nasty -- and yet you want to get to know more of Boston than you can get from websites

as for the argument of slicing the pie to thin -- give people a reason to contribute and they will -- there may be some who will slice their own contributions - but there are plenty of the recently-richer who are looking to provide an impact with a donation which wouldn't be much noticed at the MFA, or MOS

or perhaps -- your interest as a visitor, or donor lies outside of what is easily shown through walking tours -- such as where do you go to see the geology which made Boston and which led in-part to the history which happened here and in the surroundings

Finally, 18 Million visitors to Faneuil Hall / Quincy Market -- siphon off just 5% of them and you would have one of the major tourist venues competing with MFA, MOS, USS Constitution

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Shep -- Let me preface this by the statement that I enjoy walking as a solitary pursuit, as a member of a tour and as a leader of walking tours

Of Course -- walking tours of all kinds need to be here -- and there are a proliferating number of them though most do seem to concentrate on the golden 20 years from 1770 to 1790 -- But the key to why a Boston Museum -- is:
capsule summary
and all-season

you can't walk all over to cover everything and especially in certain seasons

Sometimes you don't have the time, or your guests con't do the walking, or the weather is just nasty -- and yet you want to get to know more of Boston than you can get from websites

as for the argument of slicing the pie to thin -- give people a reason to contribute and they will -- there may be some who will slice their own contributions - but there are plenty of the recently-richer who are looking to provide an impact with a donation which wouldn't be much noticed at the MFA, or MOS

or perhaps -- your interest as a visitor, or donor lies outside of what is easily shown through walking tours -- such as where do you go to see the geology which made Boston and which led in-part to the history which happened here and in the surroundings

Finally, 18 Million visitors to Faneuil Hall / Quincy Market -- siphon off just 5% of them and you would have one of the major tourist venues competing with MFA, MOS, USS Constitution

Exactly. Saying everyone should be doing walking tours of the city is utopian thinking. The Boston Museum offers it all in one stop and is in the heart of all the action. If anything, the Boston Museum should excite able and willing visitors to further visit these attractions.

 

[czsz]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I'm not opposed to a museum, but this area is such a tourist ghetto already; it's at risk of becoming a colonial Boston theme park, whatever the actual design of the building...I'm hoping for any other use to continue a healthy balance with the number of locals in the area.

Build a hotel/marketplace or something and stick the museum in a redeveloped and much-reduced City Hall Plaza to draw nearby tourists over there, maybe?

 

[whighlander]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I'm not opposed to a museum, but this area is such a tourist ghetto already; it's at risk of becoming a colonial Boston theme park, whatever the actual design of the building...I'm hoping for any other use to continue a healthy balance with the number of locals in the area.

Build a hotel/marketplace or something and stick the museum in a redeveloped and much-reduced City Hall Plaza to draw nearby tourists over there, maybe?

CZ -- given the tourists already in the area -- why not take advantage to maximize the return on the investment in the infrastructure -- eventually some people might even come for the museum and discover the rest

In the mean time let the tourists expecting the "Colonial Boston Theme Park" experience something other than Colonial Boston -- the proposed museum would let the tourists begin to see other sides of the city and its people.

I for one would be very happy to have a central point -- similar to the Skywalk where you can take visitors to see an overview of Boston -- in one case the physical overview in the other case from the perspective of history and interactions

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Here's the details on the exhibits, etc., at least as of last year, when they first went public with their plans.

To me, it looks like a lot of empty space filled with boring shit only tourists would like; nothing for those of us, like, who actually live here.

http://www.bostonmuseum.org/visitor.html

 

[Officejab]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

http://www.bostonmuseum.org/images/twoverticalslarge.jpg

Looking back at the now defunct 2009 plans I forgot about the suspension bridge over the artery off-ramps. In my opinion the 09 design was more sleek, appealing and pedestrian friendly.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

For a museum like this, the permanent exhibits will attract tourists while the temporary rotating ones will attract locals.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

In the Innovation gallery:

Watch scientists and engineers experiment, build, and create the next "Big Boston Idea." Discover why we're known as "the Hub." Find out why, from the Mayflower Compact to the mutual fund, America 's most revolutionary ideas were made in Massachusetts.

In the Sports gallery:

Shoot some virtual hoops with Celtics legend Larry Bird, hop on an animated walkway and follow the crowds home from the first-ever World Series, and find out how chilly New England came to claim the hottest sports franchises in the country!

In the Politics gallery:

In Boston we never go to bed angry. We stay up and fight!

Witness the great debates and explosive conflicts that gave birth to citizen democracy, the abolitionist and human rights movements, gay marriage and more. Walk the picket line with Boston cops.and find out how the 1916 police strike propelled Calvin Coolidge to the White House. Gather in the courtroom for the 1854 trial of fugitive slave Anthony Burns, a case that galvanized the abolitionist movement.

In the People gallery:

Discover Boston as a crossroads of cultures and identities. Yankee bluebloods, Lace Curtain Irish, Pilgrims, Puritans, Native peoples, African Americans, Italians, Dominicans and Jews.witness what happens when new groups arrive and old conflicts erupt. Record your own story to share with others. Search our computer data base for family members who came to Boston and made the city their own.

In the Growth gallery:

Look down on the animation of the glacier that formed Massachusetts Bay . Hear the boom of the ice cracking. Watch the swamps of the Back Bay being formed, then filled in.and fast forward to the modern city, the most engineered in the nation. Take a simulated ride over the covered cow paths and mean streets of Beantown. Can you find your way from Logan Airport to Beacon Hill and then out to Hyde Park?

Ugggghhhhhhh I really really hope this goes nowhayyh. No wonder nobody wants to come forward and fund this provincial brainfart. And so long as no one does, I'll stay hopeful that one of the other proposals will win out.

 

[BostonObserver]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Discover Boston as a crossroads of cultures and identities. Yankee bluebloods, Lace Curtain Irish, Pilgrims, Puritans, Native peoples, African Americans, Italians, Dominicans and Jews.

Why is it only the Irish are referenced with a derogatory term?

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

What is derogatory about it?

 

[whighlander]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Why is it only the Irish are referenced with a derogatory term?

Bos -- what about the poor "Swamp Yankees" who wish that their kids would marry Lace Curtain Irish to allow the family to move-up in the world

 

[cden4]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I would really love to see a focus on 20th century history. We all know the colonial stuff, but the 20th century is when Boston almost died and then came roaring back. There is a lot of really interesting political and planning history to be told.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Why is it only the Irish are referenced with a derogatory term?

I'm not sure lace curtain is derogatory except when used by non-lace curtain Irish. But why do you think Blue Blood Yankee isn't derogatory. Personally I don't see either that way, but both could be construed as such by the overly sensitive.

My view: Lace curtain Irish is a reference to the ideal of upward mobility. That's a positive attribute for our larges immigrant class.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Ugggghhhhhhh I really really hope this goes nowhayyh. No wonder nobody wants to come forward and fund this provincial brainfart. And so long as no one does, I'll stay hopeful that one of the other proposals will win out.

shep -- I started reading and I had a very different reaction

Innovation sounded excellent -- although I think my list should be introduced as evidence:
The Industrial Revolution was born in Watertown / Waltham
Modern Surgery and MGH
Transplants and B&W
re-attaching limbs and MGH
Mutual Funds -- old style
Mutual Funds -- new style
Telephone
modern public education
the creation of the research university
Electrification of Transit
Radar and air traffic control
the creation and molding of the land of Boston itself

Sports:
well I'd rather shoot some virtual hoops with Houston Antwine
I rather follow the crowd to City Hall Plaza to see Bobby Orr
I rather race to the finish line of the Marathon with El Gruapo
I rather skate against Steve Kuberski

Politics -- it should be all about Mayor, Congressman, Governor and Federal Felons -- not a whole bunch of politicians -- just James Michael Curley

People -- its got to be all about John Forbes Kerry -- born in an Army hospital in Colorado:
1) son of:
a) Richard John Kerry, an "Irish-American" Catholic diplomat, lawyer, and writer from Brookline ("Lace Curtain Irish?")
b) Rosemary Isabel Forbes, high Episcopalian upper-middle-class decedent of the illustrious Forbes of China and Boston. She was born in Paris, one of eleven children of James Grant Forbes, a Brahman Yankee merchant, with banking, industrialist money roots. She studied to be a nurse, served in the Red Cross in Paris during World War II, was a Girl Scout leader at troop and council level for 50 years. Some of her ancestors settled Salem and Boston and included several governors of Massachusetts back to Colonial days (Winthrop)
2) grandson on his father's side of immigrants from the Austrian Empire from what is now Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland, some ancestors were Jewish, some of whom converted to Catholicism to avoid persecution, and the one who immigrated -- converted to being catholic (by religion) and Irish (in name)
3) grandson on his mother's side of James Grant Forbes who was born in Shanghai, China and died in Paris, France; and Margaret Tyndal Winthrop who was born in Massachusetts and died in St Briac Sur Mer, Ille et Vilaine, France.
4) Some of Kerry's mother's relations might have owned the ships where some of Kerry's father's relations traveled in steeerage from the old world to the new world
5) Kerry's first wife -- mother of his daughters: -- rich, daughter of old money from NYC
6) Kerry's 2nd wife - Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões Ferreira
a) -- even richer:
b) widow of Senator Henry John Heinz III of the Ketchup dynasty from Pittsburgh
c) daughter of Portuguese parents in Mozambique, at the time a colony of the Portuguese Empire
1) Her father was José Simões Ferreira Júnior a Portuguese physician
2) and her mother was Irene Thierstein born with both Portuguese and British Citizenship of Swiss-German, Italian, and French descent.
d) granddaughter of Alberto Thierstein, a British national from Valletta, Malta, and Maria Burló, born in Alexandria, Egypt, who both migrated to Portuguese East Africa

That's about the whole of Boston except for Italy and I'm sure in there somewhere there's a piasan

Now that would be an interesting collection of exhibits

 

[Shepard]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I think this roster of exhibits (the original post, not Westie's bizarre exposition) would be about as boring, provincial, condescending and intellectually vacant as anything I could possibly imagine - and I just floated ideas in my head like a Kardashian Museum and the Boston Museum still came out far behind it.

Anyone interested in innovation can go to the science museum or the MIT museum.

Anyone interested in sports can go to Fenway.

Nobody is interested in our local politics. Nobody. And if they are, that's what the JFK library is for.

As for Boston's "people" ... hmmm ... not sure how a tourist might see these without the help of a museum. Or, wait...

 

[whighlander]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I think this roster of exhibits (the original post, not Westie's bizarre exposition) would be about as boring, provincial, condescending and intellectually vacant as anything I could possibly imagine - and I just floated ideas in my head like a Kardashian Museum and the Boston Museum still came out far behind it.

Anyone interested in innovation can go to the science museum or the MIT museum.

Anyone interested in sports can go to Fenway.

Nobody is interested in our local politics. Nobody. And if they are, that's what the JFK library is for.

As for Boston's "people" ... hmmm ... not sure how a tourist might see these without the help of a museum. Or, wait...

Shep -- I could always go to a plumbing shop for some sink parts
then I could go to a lumber yard for some cabinet parts
then I could go to a lighting place for a light
a hardware store for a mirror

Gee -- if there only was one place where you could buy: a sink, a cabinet to set it on top; some lights; and a mirror; and maybe even some paint while you were at it - Oh wait there is -- its called Lowe's or Home Depot -- seems to work for some

Same model -- a Museum where all the above is condensed into one place -- not the equivalent of any of the other museums in detail -- but all in one place

By the way -- while I started being totally facetious with my exhibits -- there is really meat in the Politics and People as well as my earlier innovation (not all of which would be particularly good fit for MIT)

 

[czsz]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I'm with Shep on this.

If it has to be a museum, make it a pavillion of the Peabody-Essex and an affirmation that Boston is an outward-looking city, not one simply obsessed with itself.

New York's history museums (yes, two are duplicative and unnecessary) at least have material that you can't find anywhere else in the city. It's a good point that musea already exist to highlight most of what would be shown here.

Want to prove that Boston is cosmopolitan and innovative? Show, don't tell.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

And Amazon.com is even more convenient - find out all about Boston from the comfort of your own computer, and spare actual residents here from a gaudy and condescending display of provincialism.