Canopy by Hilton (née Haymarket Hotel) | Blackstone St | Parcel 9 | Greenway

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

All these proposals have really been bothering me, and I'm trying to figure out why. At last I think I realize it's because this parcel could very well call for some height... to layer an interesting dynamic onto the Greenway and the "market district" ...

Just throwing in a tower design I made a while ago:

blackstonetower.jpg


I think that a tower here could really add architectural vitality to this area.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I don't know about a tall tower here. I don't mind a well design mid-rise.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I'm not sure the footprint is big enough for something with a ton of height. You'd have to have the streetwall literally run straight up with no taper/set backs which would be out of place.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

AmericanFolkLegend said:
I'm not sure the footprint is big enough for something with a ton of height. You'd have to have the streetwall literally run straight up with no taper/set backs which would be out of place.
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Look at the original DeNormandie proposal document which I linked a few days ago -- the basement is complicated by ramps

If you wanted to build a tower its footings would have to work around the ramps -- that might be a lot of investment in the structure -- I think that is the prime reason for the 4 or 5 story low/mid rise proposals
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I think a midrise is entirely appropriate in this spot. And the aesthetics will probably be better on a midrise than a highrise chopped down by North End NIMBYs and thus more value engineered.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Walked around this area yesterday and came to the conclusion that the deNormandie proposal would be the "pratical" choice. The reason is because their proposal addresses the vacant lot and 4 buildings on the west side of Blackstone St. They own these properties and would incorporate them into a complete and unified district which will complement the Boston Market proposal. Of the 4 buildings only one (housing Dirty Nellies) is not on the verge of collapse. The other proposals will just give us a shinny new building next to an eyesore.

Another reason is that if we are to have a "palace" to the cities history, it should be located on City Hall Plaza. (We always say we need an attraction to bring the people to the plaza.) If i remember correctly the city held a design competition, a couple years ago, for the renovation of City Hall/Plaza. I believe one of them had a history element. What ever happened with all those good ideas?????
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

^ I agree with your assessment - DeNormandie is the logical proposal. Just hope it would look better than the most recent rendering from the Greenway side.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

BeeLine: If DeNormandie is a slumlord with collapsing buildings in a super-prime area, wouldn't that suggest that they are a bad choice to give lucrative development rights to? If they can't maintain the (again, super-prime) properties they currently have, why give them rights to own even more prominent buildings in the heart of the city?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I can't think of the buildings you mentioned, and am concerned that if DeNormandie is a lousy landlord, maybe they really shouldn't be picked for this development.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Do we have evidence that DeNormandie is a bad landlord? What was the building condition when they bought? Have long have they owned them? I know from the proposal that their intention is to tear down and build new, but it's rolled in to the parcel 9 proposal. Does that mean they can't do anything before getting a yes or no?

Alternatively, if they don't get Parcel 9, what interest do they have in any kind of rehab?
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I'd assume they were sitting on them as the area hasn't been prime to redevelop. They look at Parcel 9 as the lynchpin to get this area rolling, as it would connect the current buildings to the greenway, and be a gateway to a small little DeNeighborhood.

And, if someone else gets it... well they could still redevelop theirs then and capitilize on the revitilization effort.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I can't remember what was in the proposal; are they planning to rehab or raze the four buildings?

If the latter, does anyone know how old they are, what sort of protection they have, etc? The buildings holding Durty Nelly's and the building adjacent to it (on the intersection with Hanover St.) look like they might be old reusable structures (the ones on the other side of Durty Nelly's are pretty much junk from what I can tell).

Most of the surrounding buildings right on the Greenway (obviously not the Blackstone Block) are late-20th-century PoMo structures built in red brick to evoke "Olde Boston." Durty Nelly's and its neighbor are actually are the red-brick real deal. If they do try to raze the old buildings, it seems like a luridly ironic instance of Disneyification to raze the city's history while continuing to build lame PoMo buildings in an attempt to preserve the architectural spirit of buildings you're knocking down...
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

In their proposal the study Durty Nelly building is safe. It's the junk buildings that would be rebuilt.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

itchy said:
I can't remember what was in the proposal; are they planning to rehab or raze the four buildings?

If the latter, does anyone know how old they are, what sort of protection they have, etc? The buildings holding Durty Nelly's and the building adjacent to it (on the intersection with Hanover St.) look like they might be old reusable structures (the ones on the other side of Durty Nelly's are pretty much junk from what I can tell).

Most of the surrounding buildings right on the Greenway (obviously not the Blackstone Block) are late-20th-century PoMo structures built in red brick to evoke "Olde Boston." Durty Nelly's and its neighbor are actually are the red-brick real deal. If they do try to raze the old buildings, it seems like a luridly ironic instance of Disneyification to raze the city's history while continuing to build lame PoMo buildings in an attempt to preserve the architectural spirit of buildings you're knocking down...
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Itch -- the street pattern is old -- the buildings of mixed age -- but not old and certainly not worth protecting

DeNormandie has made a proposal to both build on the DOT parcel #9 and to remove the buildings on Blackstone St. and replace then with new construction that is sensitive to the historic district and also compatible with the Parcel #9 structure

After DeNormndie the Boston Museum is most compatible with the site including the existing 2-day / wk Hay Market

High--end residences just do not fit in the area
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I don't understand the residence/market incompatibility argument. I lived in a great apartment above a 24 hour strip club in Kobenhaven. The people watching out the window was amazing. Most new construction, high end stuff will be double paned with windows closed and AC running all summer anyway. The noise at the Haymarket isn't even really that loud. No more or less noisy than you'd get living further up Hanover in the North End. I think it'd be the smell that would be worse, but windows do an even better job of blocking smells than they do sound.
 
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Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

^ Underground, What you're describing isn't crazy, and in fact it describes a lot of the Allston student accommodations - loud, but lively, so who cares? (Some older Allstonians do, but they don't count.)

What goes onto Parcel 9, next to the fabled Greenway and one block from Quincy Market would be an absolutely different demographic. Remember, the "solution" to the combat zone was the Ritz. Nothing would zap Haymarket into a bourgeois conformity like moneyed eyeballs from above.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

underground said:
I don't understand the residence/market incompatibility argument. I lived in a great apartment above a 24 hour strip club in Kobenhaven. The people watching out the window was amazing. Most new construction, high end stuff will be double paned with windows closed and AC running all summer any way. The noise at the Haymarket isn't ever really that loud anyway. No more or less noisy than you'd get living further up Hanover in the North End. I think it'd be the smell that would be worse, but windows do an even better job of blocking smells than they do sound.
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I agree. The argument about noise from a market below is actually a valid argument for building towers in parks. Noise and life are urban. People who want to live in an urban environment will and the people who don't, will live in a tower in Brookline.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Shepard said:
What goes onto Parcel 9, next to the fabled Greenway and one block from Quincy Market would be an absolutely different demographic. Remember, the "solution" to the combat zone was the Ritz. Nothing would zap Haymarket into a bourgeois conformity like moneyed eyeballs from above.
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It could be like the Combat Zone. Or it could be like when the luxury dwellers above the South Street Diner complained and got told to take a hike.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Seriously, I'm a horrible speller and the Danish way is just easier. That's what you get when you devise a language for drunk vikings to use.
 
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