Cape Cod Rail, Bridges and Highways

Re: Boston to Cape rail

Arlington said:
This totally confirms my math that they could easily afford to run until Columbus day. I'll try to update my pro-forma forecast of passengers and demand, but you'll see from this picture that the peak season is going to be good and the Labor-to-Columbus Day season is nearly as busy as Memorial-to-Independence.

The height of the sawtooth reveals net changes in cars on/off the Cape but some of the demand is "buried" in the baseline "long wave"

Either way, the Late Shoulder Season has the same "shape" as the Early Shoulder Season that has already been so successful, and they're going to bank a whole lot of cash in the next 8 weeks.


2011 TOTAL VEHICLES ON CAPE
(bridge volumes correlate to both height of line and height of "sawtooth")
file.php
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So, service could be successful running on weekends from Memorial Day weekend through Columbus Day. From July 1 trough Labor Day, it could run 7 days/week with two round trips on weekend days.
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

Speeds are up to 55 MPH for most of the trip between Middleboro and Buzzards Bay, except for a slow zone in the immediate BB vicinity. So they're not far off from the 60 MPH max allowable for unsignaled territory (on-Cape...still lots and lots of work to do). If they want to put some elbow grease next Spring into getting M'boro-BB up to an even 60, there's nothing stopping them from doing a trial of 2 AM + 2 PM weekday commuter rail trains to BB, so long as they can get a little help from CCRTA to cover the subsidy for the out-of-district running miles in Bourne (Wareham is the last town in the T district) and for getting BB on the Zone fare system.

If it succeeds under the live trial, fast-track the real-deal commuter rail extension and a full Middleboro schedule to BB. Which is a lot easier to do when you've got real-deal successful ridership to base it on. Phase I for just the signals, speed bump to 80 MPH, extra passing sidings where necessary, high platform conversion at BB, track work at BB for short-term layovers and freight passing, and an extra storage track or two if needed at Middleboro layover. Town of Bourne votes to join the T district. Based on how the Foxboro study priced out...that would probably clock in under $40M. Phase II...they can go fishing later for funding to add a Wareham infill stop after the service is already operating.


As for filling in the weekday gaps to Hyannis...doubt the T is going to be much interested in that for a long time. However, Cape Cod Central does have an operating Budd DMU sitting in Hyannis Yard that they've been refurbishing. And have expressed interest in picking up one or two more. Let them run a shuttle from Middleboro (or BB if commuter rail gets a trial) to Hyannis once every 3 hours or so on the days the FLYER isn't running and see if enough people show up to break-even on operating a single-car dinky. CCCR will gladly take the revenue if the state can negotiate them some bridge openings and allow them passage into the M'boro platform.
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

bigeman312 said:
So, service could be successful running on weekends from Memorial Day weekend through Columbus Day. From July 1 trough Labor Day, it could run 7 days/week with two round trips on weekend days.
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There's definitely going to be a market for the thin-but-high-fare Weekly Commuter and Exurban Day Tripper--these are part of what has made Amtrak Virginia a success from places about 2 hours from DC. The Weekly Commuter has a weekend house on the cape but works 3 or 4 days the City (and stays nights in the City while working).

The Exurban Day Tripper works from home, but shows his/her face in the City one day per week (usually Monday or Friday).

You can serve these two without daily service. Daily would tap the Super Commuter (the full live-on-Cape, work-everyday-in-City), and attract more Day Trippers but might not cover its costs, and they should probably just wait until the T does a real extension of the Marlboro line.

I suspect that morning trips on Friday and Monday in peak season would break even in themselves (and be system-positive because they complement the rest of the schedule nicely).

Thursday evening would probably be marginal but Tue/Wed would likely be unnecessary drains.
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

I would see two obstacles with a Monday AM HYA-BOS trip.

1. You have to get the set there.

2. It's a set that is removed from the pool for X hours more than normal. You spend another 90 minutes or so each way (admittedly moving set to HYA can be done before service starts, but that then takes crews out of the pool for X hours later in the day) from Middleborough layover to Hyannis.
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

Cape service officially extended through Columbus Day!

From Adam on UHub this afternoon:

The Cape Flyer weekend service between South Station and Hyannis was originally going to end Labor Day weekend, but MBTA and Cape officials say it's proven popular enough to warrant the extra weekends:

The long awaited return of weekend rail service to Cape Cod has proven successful, attracting a total of 11,031 customers for the period from the beginning of service on Memorial Day weekend through this morning, August 11th.
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http://www.universalhub.com/2013/cap-train-service-extended-through-columbus-day-we
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Re: Boston to Cape rail

BussesAin'tTrains said:
Cape Flyer service becoming permanent and Wareham is getting a stop.
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Interestingly, Cahir was sour on the Wareham intermediate stop idea and was pushing back on it. But the Governor up and did an end run around him announcing it. Not that it makes much difference either way, but Patrick only piques his attention when the right kind of swing constituency bends his ear. And the Wareham YIMBY's made it happen. Credit where credit's due...the skeptics have seen the light and be singin' the praises.

Expect the Home Depot-special cheapo mini-high to appear at that station next spring to settle up the ADA fine print. It's a perfectly serviceable 800 ft. platform with shelter, public restrooms, lots of on-platform benches, plenty of public parking and bus accessibility, walkable from all around downtown, gorgeous views of the cove. Very nice spot.
 
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Re: Boston to Cape rail

Ron Newman said:
Also, what became of the rail right-of-way between Wellfleet and Provincetown? Can it be turned into a trail?
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There's a planning process underway on the Outer Cape to figure this out. I went to a meeting in Wellfleet last week to see what's going on. It's a collaboration between the Cape Cod National Seashore, the Cape Cod Commission, and the towns of Wellfleet, Truro, and Provincetown.

You can find out more at the Cape Cod Commission's web site here:
Outer Cape Bicycle & Pedestrian Master Plan
http://www.capecodcommission.org/index.php?id=73&maincatid=68

Much of the old rail right-of-way was sold off, so it's no longer contiguous from Wellfleet through to Truro. The only place it's intact is a 1.25-mi section in Provincetown from the Truro town line to Howland Street. It's owned by the town and is a conservation area known as the "Old Colony Nature Pathway". The railway used to end at MacMillan Pier on Provincetown's waterfront, but the section from Howland St to Conwell St was turned into a road (Harry Kemp Way, named for "the poet of the dunes") and the part from Conwell St to the pier is now in private hands (used as a huge seasonal parking lot).

Since the Provincetown section is now a "nature pathway" I expect there will be significant opposition from the town's open space and conservation committees if it's recommended that the path be paved. Apparently there was an effort to do so back in the 1990s but it was resoundingly shot down.

(Sorry to dredge up an old thread but this seemed like the most appropriate place to post this update.)
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

i know it seemed that rail was going out of style, but i just never cease to be amazed at the shortsitedness of selling off rights of way, anytime, anywhere....
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

Precisely. There will never, ever be such a thing as a useless right of way, not with the density of New England. Even those with absolutely no hope of ever seeing a train again almost always have a secondary use as a trail.

An aside: In particular, I'd like to see a focus on old branchlines being trailed. Many of the original junctions still have commuter rail or Amtrak stations, making trails viable transit connections, and minor branchlines are generally of less transit value than intercity routes.

  • The inner Nantasket Beach ROW could connect some of Hull to Nantasket Junction
  • North Attleboro Branch to Attleboro
  • Buttonwoods Branch to a future Cranston station
  • Wickford Branch (plus the old Sea View trolley line) to Wickford Junction
  • Wrentham Branch to Norwood, and to Walpole via a short on-street segment
  • Medway Branch to Norfolk
  • Finally getting the Saxonville Branch trail to Natick
  • Framingham & Lowell to West Concord
  • Finish the Assabet River Rail Trail to South Acton.
  • Stoneham Branch to a future Montvale Ave station
  • Bradford section of the Georgetown Branch
  • Newburyport & City RR
  • Old industrial spurs to Salem and future South Salem
  • Saugus Branch to Lynn, and (via Route 60) to Malden Center
  • Swampscott Branch and Marblehead Branch
  • Ends of the Watertown Branch to Waltham and Alewife
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

The EGE said:
Precisely. There will never, ever be such a thing as a useless right of way, not with the density of New England. Even those with absolutely no hope of ever seeing a train again almost always have a secondary use as a trail.

An aside: In particular, I'd like to see a focus on old branchlines being trailed. Many of the original junctions still have commuter rail or Amtrak stations, making trails viable transit connections, and minor branchlines are generally of less transit value than intercity routes.

  • The inner Nantasket Beach ROW could connect some of Hull to Nantasket Junction
  • North Attleboro Branch to Attleboro
  • Buttonwoods Branch to a future Cranston station
  • Wickford Branch (plus the old Sea View trolley line) to Wickford Junction
  • Wrentham Branch to Norwood, and to Walpole via a short on-street segment
  • Medway Branch to Norfolk
  • Finally getting the Saxonville Branch trail to Natick
  • Framingham & Lowell to West Concord
  • Finish the Assabet River Rail Trail to South Acton.
  • Stoneham Branch to a future Montvale Ave station
  • Bradford section of the Georgetown Branch
  • Newburyport & City RR
  • Old industrial spurs to Salem and future South Salem
  • Saugus Branch to Lynn, and (via Route 60) to Malden Center
  • Swampscott Branch and Marblehead Branch
  • Ends of the Watertown Branch to Waltham and Alewife
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The only issue with turning some ROWs into trails is that it can give some abutters credibility/legitimacy. I spent some time volunteering for the Danvers Railtrail on the ROW running from Peabody to Topsfield (Former Newburyport RR ROW?), and we ran into the issue of a busy local retailer who had been using the ROW as parking space and truck loading areas. Rather than force them to give back the ROW, the trail had to bridge across some wetlands and travel through a neighboring park so people could cross safely. While the trail and previously neglected park ended up benefiting greatly from this, I doubt that (unlikely) restoration of the RR row can happen now that the abutter won out. The "Oh, it's just a walking trail how hard can it be for them to just go around us" argument is going to win out 99% of the time and make it a royal pain in the ass to convert trails back to rail.
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

That's why I'd only support that for ROWs where there is absolutely no chance of useful transit or freight service ever returning. The only one on that list that violates that is perhaps the Alewife end of the Watertown Branch - I picked all of those for that reason.
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

Wouldn't the Waltham ends of the Watertown branch make a good GLX, connecting via the inner Fitchburg Line ROW to Union Square?
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

Alon said:
Wouldn't the Waltham ends of the Watertown branch make a good GLX, connecting via the inner Fitchburg Line ROW to Union Square?
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Re-ask this over in Crazy Transit or the Green Line configuration thread :)
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

cbrett said:
The only issue with turning some ROWs into trails is that it can give some abutters credibility/legitimacy. I spent some time volunteering for the Danvers Railtrail on the ROW running from Peabody to Topsfield (Former Newburyport RR ROW?), and we ran into the issue of a busy local retailer who had been using the ROW as parking space and truck loading areas. Rather than force them to give back the ROW, the trail had to bridge across some wetlands and travel through a neighboring park so people could cross safely. While the trail and previously neglected park ended up benefiting greatly from this, I doubt that (unlikely) restoration of the RR row can happen now that the abutter won out. The "Oh, it's just a walking trail how hard can it be for them to just go around us" argument is going to win out 99% of the time and make it a royal pain in the ass to convert trails back to rail.
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I really don't get this. The abutters don't own it, have no claim to it, and them parking cars on it is about as legal as me insisting I can park cars on my neighbor's front lawn. You don't own it! How can any other argument win over that? I'd say the same thing to the BLX abutters, Watertown Branch ROW, etc. Why is this so difficult?
 
Re: Boston to Cape rail

Shepard said:
I really don't get this. The abutters don't own it, have no claim to it, and them parking cars on it is about as legal as me insisting I can park cars on my neighbor's front lawn. You don't own it! How can any other argument win over that? I'd say the same thing to the BLX abutters, Watertown Branch ROW, etc. Why is this so difficult?
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I'm pretty sure that the Point of Pines was allowed to built up right to the edge of the ROW. Not actually encroached, but flush property line abutters. That's a political issue that'll probably lead any BLX to Lynn to be punted over to the Eastern Route before the PoP peninsula.

The Watertown ROW was actually parceled off I think. Watertown is the process of trying to buy back the land to stitch the ROW back together.

EDIT: Is there a general rail trail, or abandoned ROW thread we could move this to?
 
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Re: Boston to Cape rail

Shepard said:
I really don't get this. The abutters don't own it, have no claim to it, and them parking cars on it is about as legal as me insisting I can park cars on my neighbor's front lawn. You don't own it! How can any other argument win over that? I'd say the same thing to the BLX abutters, Watertown Branch ROW, etc. Why is this so difficult?
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It's usually more complicated than that. Often, the abutter who you are referring to - the one who decides to encroach upon an unused ROW (either knowingly or unknowingly) - has sold the property. The current owner bought the property that they believe included what is actually the ROW. There would often be no indication otherwise, and neither the seller nor the buyer would have any reason to believe that they don't own that part of the property. Sometimes, this property, including the ROW, has changed hands numerous times.

Therefore, a better analogy is your neighbor telling you that you can't park your car on your own driveway. When you ask why, they refer to the fact that the person who owned your property in the 1940s unlawfully expanded onto the neighbor (at the time's) property. Your current neighbor finds out, and insists on reclaiming the driveway to your house.

This is why it so important to ALWAYS maintain ownership of the ROW and never allow any unlawful encroachment.

EDITED: for clarity
 
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Re: Boston to Cape rail

BussesAin'tTrains said:
I'm pretty sure that the Point of Pines was allowed to built up right to the edge of the ROW. Not actually encroached, but flush property line abutters. That's a political issue that'll probably lead any BLX to Lynn to be punted over to the Eastern Route before the PoP peninsula.

The Watertown ROW was actually parceled off I think. Watertown is the process of trying to buy back the land to stitch the ROW back together.

EDIT: Is there a general rail trail, or abandoned ROW thread we could move this to?
Click to expand...

i was just so shocked when watertown let lexis build on the ROW, and then started letting those absolutely mindfuckingly hideous buildings off pleasant street get built as well. and the cape ROW was a long time ago, right? watertown did these things in the last 10-15 yrs! really just dont get what they were thinking.

bigeman312
Re: Boston to Cape rail

It's usually more complicated than that. Often, the abutter who you are referring to - the one who decides to encroach upon an unused ROW (either knowingly or unknowingly) - has sold the property. The current owner bought the property that they believe included what is actually the ROW. There would often be no indication otherwise, and neither the seller nor the buyer would have any reason to believe that they don't own that part of the property. Sometimes, this property, including the ROW, has changed hands numerous times.

Therefore, a better analogy is your neighbor telling you that you can't park your car on your own driveway. When you ask why, they refer to the fact that the person who owned your property in the 1940s unlawfully expanded onto the neighbor (at the time's) property. Your current neighbor finds out, and insists on reclaiming the driveway to your house.

This is why it so important to ALWAYS maintain ownership of the ROW and never allow any unlawful encroachment.
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i dont know about massachusetts, but a "right of way" is a very old legal concept that in some places (in the UK, in particular) can go become legally official simply by tradition. that is, in many locales, if a right of way (be it on foot, car or whatever) has been allowed by the property owner for many years/generations/etc, and then one day tries to take away the right of way, the users can sue and be upheld that the right of way has been allowed for so long that it has become official. i think the notion with the people that build pools or park cars on railroad rights of way end up getting away with it out of a similar principle. again, i dont know what the legal deal is in mass, but given an old tradition of this, i think it's hard in court to suddenly tell someone that the property they were using for something, where the official owner hasnt told them not to for decades, can no longer do so. it's something that superficially seems quite clear, but in reality is not.

frustrating, because this principle usually works FOR "the people" where some estate or something has allowed an informal ROW to a beach or as a cut-through between two pieces of public land and then some rich asshole buys the estate and tries to close the ROW, and the court tells them they have to keep it open.

Edit - anyone wanting to read more on the legal stuff, here is a wiki on it..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easement#Easement_by_perscription
 
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Re: Boston to Cape rail

FK4 said:
i dont know about massachusetts, but a "right of way" is a very old legal concept that in some places (in the UK, in particular) can go become legally official simply by tradition. that is, in many locales, if a right of way (be it on foot, car or whatever) has been allowed by the property owner for many years/generations/etc, and then one day tries to take away the right of way, the users can sue and be upheld that the right of way has been allowed for so long that it has become official. i think the notion with the people that build pools or park cars on railroad rights of way end up getting away with it out of a similar principle. again, i dont know what the legal deal is in mass, but given an old tradition of this, i think it's hard in court to suddenly tell someone that the property they were using for something, where the official owner hasnt told them not to for decades, can no longer do so. it's something that superficially seems quite clear, but in reality is not.
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Conversely, there's adverse possession. In New York, the people encroaching on the Rockaway Beach Branch ROW are claiming that, but current law only permits adverse possession of private land, not state land. This has not been this way forever - in the 19th century, it was possible to adversely possess public land in New York, but only after 40 years of occupation, vs. 20 years for private land.

I have no idea what the current law in Massachusetts is, but it may not be on the side of the railroad.
 
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