City Hall Discussion - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

Ron Newman said:
The land on the other side of Fort Point Channel has always been considered 'South Boston'. Notice the prominent label 'South Boston Flats' on this 1884 map.

South Boston was part of Dorchester until 1804, when the legislature allowed Boston to annex Dorchester at the behest of real estate speculators over the protests of Dorchester's representatives. That's why the monument in Southie is "Dorchester Heights".

"South Boston, from present appearances, is predestined to be the magnificent section of the city in respect to costly residences, fashionable society, and the influence of wealth."

From the Boston Almanac for 1853
 
bowesst said:
In the case of City Hall, arriving at some kind of democratic consensus isn't about defining good or bad architecture; It's about deciding if a baron 9 acre site, in the middle of one of the greatest cities in the country is the most beneficial and efficient use of space.

bowesst said:
ablarc, since you keep referring us to the NY forum and like to hold Boston to the same standards as you do NY, tell me, would your prescription for City Hall Plaza be the same if it existed in Midtown Manhattan? Just curious.
 
Is this even possible?

Can we move City Hall to the Hynes Convention Center?
 
Why? The Hynes serves a good purpose where it is. It is a great boon to the hotels, restaurants, stores, and malls that surround it. The Globe today has an article about a Romney-appointed panel studying and rejecting Romney's idea of selling the Hynes.
 
I don't agree with that assessment

The Hynes doesn't pay for itself. Isn't keeping it open just subsidizing the hotels?

Has anyone ever done an actual study to analyze how much money went into the Hynes (and its renovation) and the parking garage (and its monstrously expensive renovation) and its annual subsidies, and compared it to actual dollars raised in sales tax, etc.?

We have a convention center. We don't need two.

I guess the people on the board know better than I. Or, less.
 
Re: I don't agree with that assessment

IMAngry said:
We have a convention center. We don't need two.

I don't know much about the Hynes' revenue or whether it pays for itself. However, I'm pretty sure that it's actually gained in shows and events since the new one opened. If anything, having two helps both, because conventioneers have started considering Boston to be a legitimate convention town.
 
Source: State will maintain control of Hynes Convention Center by Jacqueline G. Freeman
http://www.backbaysun.com/#ST158


Two years after a commission was formed by an act of the legislature to study the use and possible sale of the Hynes Convention Center and the Boston Common Garage, a draft report is finally ready for review by commission members.

While the draft is confidential, the sentiment of the report will suggest keeping the status quo, with modifications to increase profit, said one commission member....

Simply put, the commission had to answer the question of whether or not the city needs two convention centers...

From a closure standpoint, it is important because it is on the books legislatively and it creates uncertainty from a marketing perspective and from a business planning perspective.
 
The Globe said:
Eeeeeeeeek!
There's a scurry of activity at City Hall: Mice invasion has employees on edge

By Matt Viser, Globe Staff | December 20, 2006

The City Council aide was working late, as she often does. Absorbed by her work, she paid little attention at first to the skittering she heard across the room; City Hall at night, emptied of its bustle of workers, often makes strange noises. But then a cold wave of dread: There was a creature scratching and clawing just behind the radiator.

"Once I heard it, I left," said Danielle Williams , communications director for Councilor Felix D. Arroyo . "Because I don't like mice at all. I don't like the looks of them. And they smell, kind of like a wet animal."

As Williams soon learned, it was not an isolated incident in the concrete warren of City Council offices in recent weeks.

The office of the council president, Michael F. Flaherty, was invaded by mice, as was Councilor Maureen E. Feeney's, where a meeting was interrupted by blood-curdling shrieks when workers saw a mouse get caught in a trap and watched as another seemed to be trying to rescue it.

"It's disgusting," said a receptionist for Councilor Jerry P. McDermott , shuddering. "It makes my skin tingle just thinking about it."

Mice, building officials said, suddenly appear to be everywhere, darting across floors, hiding inside radiators, ducking into crevices in the walls. Food is being wrapped up tight and stored in high cabinets. Women are refusing to put their purses on the floor. Exterminators, who stop by each day, have laid some 150 traps throughout the building.

The problems seem to be concentrated on the fifth floor, where elected officials have their offices; several traps have been laid in the offices of Mayor Thomas M. Menino . There have also been numerous sightings on the second floor, where members of the public go to pay parking tickets or deal with tax issues.

"They are everywhere," said a parking clerk. "You hear people screaming, and you see a mouse running by. You see them in the bathroom."

The mice generally appear late at night, workers said. Many sightings have been out of the public eye, in council offices.

"You're seeing a lot more activity in the mice than normal," said Michael Galvin , the city's chief of public property. "It's part of doing business in a downtown building that's surrounded by tunnels. It's going to be an ongoing battle."

Several months ago, there were cockroaches on the second floor, Galvin said. Fruit flies are also a frequent problem. Employees reported seeing a bat flying in the building in October, but haven't spotted it since.

The building has dealt with mice, Galvin said, but the problems have rarely been this severe, which he attributed largely to a sprinkler system installation that could have stirred the animals out of their homes in the bowels of City Hall.

Several council aides said they frequently report to work in the mornings and find mouse droppings on their desks. Most offices have begun keeping a supply of disinfecting wipes to clean it up.

"You don't leave any food out, that's for sure," said Councilor John Tobin , who once had a gingerbread house, and "overnight it was downsized to a two -bedroom condo." "If you do, there's a major after-hours mouse party here. They leave behind their party hats, if you will."

There are two traps in Councilor Robert Consalvo's office . Councilor Michael P. Ross has three in his office.

"I've never seen anything like this," said Feeney, who has worked in the building for 20 years.

For some, it highlights a reason to tear down the building and start over, as the mayor proposed last week. For others, they worry about what could come next.

"If we move to South Boston, we're going to get water rats," said one staff member. "I'd take mice over water rats any day."

Michael Levenson of the Globe staff contributed to this story. Matt Viser can be reached at maviser@globe.com.
Link
 
The Herald said:
You can fight City Hall: And this one ought to be demolished
By Alan Lupo
Wednesday, December 20, 2006

City Hall should be preserved as a landmark?
Let?s also save those oil tank farms along the Chelsea Creek. How about those rubbish-strewn vacant lots dotting our metropolitan landscape?
A dump is a dump is a dump.
These sentiments are not an insult to Pauline Chase-Harrell, the former chairwoman of the Boston Landmarks Commission, who suggested designating as a historic landmark what my pal and former City Hall official, John Vitagliano, calls ?King Kong?s mausoleum.?
It?s been called even worse and deservedly so.
Chase-Harrell was accurate when she told the Herald?s Scott Van Voorhis, ?It was a major statement of architecture of its period. The rationale was that it was the new Boston in concrete, rising out of the old, red brick city.?
I recall that when I first visited the thing in 1968, it made a major statement to me. ?Blechhh!? it stated.
After a few years of trying to find my way around its innards (?I won?t be home again tonight, honey. I think I?m on the second floor. How old are the kids these days??), I realized that the only aspect of this architectural rationale that was uglier than the outside was the inside.
It?s not just City Hall. The whole Government Center is a disaster. It is not one of the better legacies of Mayor John Collins and his urban renewal czar, Ed
Logue. It has done nothing to revitalize that segment of Boston. It goes to sleep every night.
Business was better when it was Scollay Square. At least then, you could buy a hot dog, get a tattoo and hit the burly show, where you?d give the ?candy butcher? a buck for a 10-cent chocolate bar, thereby energizing the city?s economy.
Mayor Tom Menino?s plan to sell City Hall and its vapid plaza and build a new version on the Southie waterfront is worthy of serious discussion. Its major drawback is accessibility. It?s fine to talk about ferry service, but that requires something called water, which is not a readily available means of transportation if you happen to live near Eddie Everett Square or the corner of Blue Hill and Morton.
If we must throw a bone to the landmarks people, keep the existing City Hall. Just change its function. Turn it into a replica of Scollay Square - nine stories of Joe and Nemo hot dogs, tattoo parlors, pawn shops, bail bondsman offices and a theater featuring a three-piece band, a scantily clad woman playing straight man to a baggy pants comedian and rest rooms that nobody in his right mind would visit.
Hardly had the mayor?s plan left his mouth than City Hall was fielding calls from developers who look at City Hall Plaza and see early retirement, a nice boat and golfing at Boca.
Where developers see profits, and where Menino sees a grand vision, the naysayers see problems. Well, as an old song says, they all laughed at Edison and Marconi. Criticism comes with the turf.
One also might hear that Menino is neglecting the neighborhoods for downtown dreams. Mayor Kevin White was slapped with the same rap during the later years of his four terms. Critics charged that he went from being the ?neighborhood mayor? to the ?downtown mayor.?
He managed to be both. As scholar Tilo Schabert wrote in, ?Boston Politics: The Creativity of Power,? the White administration had invested $680 million in infrastructure, of which all but $100 million was for the neighborhoods.
Menino hits the streets more than most of his critics do. Mayors can walk and chew gum at the same time, can make sure potholes get filled and still think big thoughts.
Link
BTW: To give an idea of what is being said and what the generally feeling is towards the idea, I'm posting all articles about moving City Hall, regardless of thier position.
 
It's long past time to tear this piece of shit down. That last article in the Globe does it for me.

I don't care what kind of ridiculous "architectural statement" it makes. It's an ugly, useless, insect- and rodent-infested, dysfunctional clusterfuck. Yeah, I'm sure it's really important architecturally. Who cares? It's time for it to go.
 
ablarc said:
Rapper finds inspiration in Chaucer

DowntownDave ... ?

Yes, the Rap Chaucer is pretty interesting. Link. I'd be interested to hear what alliterative poetry would sound like in such a medium - rim ram ruf would be interesting in a modern setting....
 
DudeUrSistersHot said:
It's long past time to tear this piece of shit down. That last article in the Globe does it for me.

I don't care what kind of ridiculous "architectural statement" it makes. It's an ugly, useless, insect- and rodent-infested, dysfunctional clusterfuck. Yeah, I'm sure it's really important architecturally. Who cares? It's time for it to go.

And what would take its place? Most likely another boring uninspired building. I'd rather see it stay put, but rehabilitated for another use.
 
LeTaureau said:
DudeUrSistersHot said:
It's long past time to tear this piece of shit down. That last article in the Globe does it for me.

I don't care what kind of ridiculous "architectural statement" it makes. It's an ugly, useless, insect- and rodent-infested, dysfunctional clusterfuck. Yeah, I'm sure it's really important architecturally. Who cares? It's time for it to go.

And what would take its place? Most likely another boring uninspired building. I'd rather see it stay put, but rehabilitated for another use.

03cy6.jpg
 
LeTaureau said:
DudeUrSistersHot said:
It's long past time to tear this piece of shit down. That last article in the Globe does it for me.

I don't care what kind of ridiculous "architectural statement" it makes. It's an ugly, useless, insect- and rodent-infested, dysfunctional clusterfuck. Yeah, I'm sure it's really important architecturally. Who cares? It's time for it to go.

And what would take its place? Most likely another boring uninspired building. I'd rather see it stay put, but rehabilitated for another use.
I say it's better to have a boring uninspiring building than an ugly massive eyesore in the middle of the city.
 
ZenZen said:
^ But at least it's memorable.

Bush is a memorable president. Do you prefer him over his less memorable father?

Or, alternatively, taken to the extreme: Hitler was extremely memorable. Do we want him to be our country's leader?
 
please let's leave Hitler out of any and all arguments (unless the specific subject is 1930s-40s German architecture).
 
Hynes May See Ground-Level Retail

Hynes May See Ground-Level Retail

By Beverly Ford, GlobeSt.com

BOSTON-A special state commission?s recommendation to turn a portion of the John B. Hynes Veterans Memorial Convention Center on Boylston Street into retail space could prove to be a boom for the struggling venue, real estate insiders tell GlobeSt.com. The state commission recommended converting the convention center?s ground level into retail space following a study commissioned by the legislature.

The legislative study came after Gov. Mitt Romney advocated selling the state-owned building because he said it is no longer needed now that the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center has opened in South Boston. In a report released Tuesday, however, the panel found that the city would lose convention business from smaller groups if it sold the Hynes and suggested that the state retain ownership of the building, and convert the first floor to retail.

?Going retail in an extremely strong market would create a fairly substantial revenue stream,? says David Begelfer, head of the Boston chapter of the National Association of Industrial and Office Properties. ?It?s a strong retail location and there would be strong demand for it.?

Retail specialist James Koury, with Jones Lang LaSalle?s Boston office, tells GlobeSt.com that converting the Hynes? first floor into retail and restaurant space would be a welcome addition to the Back Bay, where retail is thriving.

?It presents a unique opportunity to develop a critical mass of retail in one of the hottest retail areas of the city,? Koury says. ?This isn?t something that comes across people?s radar screens very frequently so there certainly would be a lot of interest in it.?

Koury says the street level space would allow a developer to create a separate retail identity while drawing on the synergy created by the Prudential Center shops located next door and other retail locations along Boylston Street. ?It?s a hot location that will benefit from all the other retail generated in the Back Bay,? he notes.

Begelfer says that although converting the space would reduce some of the Hynes convention space, the building, which is currently running a $5-million to $6-million deficit, could greatly benefit from the income retail would produce.

The conversion to retail, however, remains in the hands of legislators who must approve the special commission?s recommendations.
 
converting the first floor of the Hynes to retail is a tempting idea, but is complicated by the fact that it isn't really at the street level. The building is on a platform above the Turnpike.
 

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