City Hall Discussion - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation
- Thread starter bosdevelopment
- Start date
KentXie
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,192
- Reaction score
- 756
Not much about City Hall until the last part.
N.Y. stays hot as Hub cools: Apple leads in housing, jobs
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Sunday, December 24, 2006 - Updated: 04:18 AM EST
The once-hot condo market has cooled in Boston. City and business leaders are soul-searching about how to spark job growth in a still sluggish local economy.
All of which is in stark contrast to the Hub?s archrival, New York, which is experiencing a boom of historic proportions.
Housing construction is soaring, and companies are adding tens of thousands of jobs a year in the Big Apple. The city is bracing for a million more New Yorkers by 2030.
The contrast in the two cities? housing markets was not lost on Donald Trump, in town recently to put on a motivational seminar at Boston?s new convention center.
?New York is doing very well,? Trump told the Herald then. ?I am getting higher prices than I would have gotten (a few) years ago,? he said of some of his luxury condo projects.
But the contrast is raising troubling questions among local business leaders.
Some executives are wondering why Boston is missing out and whether state and city leaders need to be doing more. There is even concern that New York?s success is coming at Boston?s expense, sucking away growth that could be coming to the Hub.
?It?s cheaper to live in Boston than in New York,? said downtown Boston tower developer Dean Stratouly. ?We should be (attracting) more of the financial services and investment management companies to Boston.?
New York has been banging out 30,000 homes and condos a year, and a major construction industry group predicts that pace will continue through 2008.
Fueling the housing surge is job growth, with Wall Street workers taking home outsized paychecks and bonuses that are being rolled into new condos. New York City added 42,000 jobs last year, a 1.4 percent growth rate, and down from 2 percent in recent years.
Another big factor fueling the boom - population growth. New York?s population has seen a dramatic rebound since the 1970s, and is now at a record 8.2 million. It is expected to grow to 9 million by 2030.
With its economy firing on all cylinders, big projects like the Time Warner Center and new Hearst Tower are getting both proposed and built.
?Three quarters of a million people moved back into the city. That is a very big number. It has really fueled the condominium market,? said William Wheaton, an MIT economist and real estate expert.
Meanwhile in Boston, expansion is modest at best right now.
Job growth has been a mixed bag, with Massachusetts, and its economic engine Boston, still recovering from the last recession. Overall, the state is still down 143,800 jobs from 2001.
Office vacancy rates are tightening, with small and midsized firms scooping up space and adding jobs. But many of the city?s flagship corporations have been acquired.
While the giants still here, like Fidelity Investments, are growing, they are also shifting jobs out to out-of-state campuses and beyond.
The one area Boston had seen strong growth in - housing - now appears to be cooling.
Outgoing City Hall development chief Mark Maloney recently boasted of the city?s big housing push - 17,000 new units since 2000.
But even that accomplishment may be in trouble, with condo sales slowing downtown and developers of planned projects weighing whether to start building.
What to make of this tale of two cities? What?s the missing ingredient in Boston?
One big answer, local executives said, is job growth, which helps fuel demand for both new housing and downtown towers alike.
Such growth provides the wind that helps move big projects forward, developers say.
?Job growth is the key,? said Thomas Meagher, head of Northeast Apartment Advisors, which tracks the Boston - and now New York - area housing markets. ?We are having some positive job growth, but it?s tepid.?
And both state and city government are behind the 8-ball when it comes to working to keep big companies in Boston, Stratouly, the Boston tower developer, argues.
He called Mayor Thomas M. Menino?s plan to form a City Hall sales group to market Boston to companies a step in the right direction.
?It?s better late than never,? Stratouly said. ?When you have this . . . exodus from the city . . . it is horrible. It is a wake-up call.?
N.Y. stays hot as Hub cools: Apple leads in housing, jobs
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Sunday, December 24, 2006 - Updated: 04:18 AM EST
The once-hot condo market has cooled in Boston. City and business leaders are soul-searching about how to spark job growth in a still sluggish local economy.
All of which is in stark contrast to the Hub?s archrival, New York, which is experiencing a boom of historic proportions.
Housing construction is soaring, and companies are adding tens of thousands of jobs a year in the Big Apple. The city is bracing for a million more New Yorkers by 2030.
The contrast in the two cities? housing markets was not lost on Donald Trump, in town recently to put on a motivational seminar at Boston?s new convention center.
?New York is doing very well,? Trump told the Herald then. ?I am getting higher prices than I would have gotten (a few) years ago,? he said of some of his luxury condo projects.
But the contrast is raising troubling questions among local business leaders.
Some executives are wondering why Boston is missing out and whether state and city leaders need to be doing more. There is even concern that New York?s success is coming at Boston?s expense, sucking away growth that could be coming to the Hub.
?It?s cheaper to live in Boston than in New York,? said downtown Boston tower developer Dean Stratouly. ?We should be (attracting) more of the financial services and investment management companies to Boston.?
New York has been banging out 30,000 homes and condos a year, and a major construction industry group predicts that pace will continue through 2008.
Fueling the housing surge is job growth, with Wall Street workers taking home outsized paychecks and bonuses that are being rolled into new condos. New York City added 42,000 jobs last year, a 1.4 percent growth rate, and down from 2 percent in recent years.
Another big factor fueling the boom - population growth. New York?s population has seen a dramatic rebound since the 1970s, and is now at a record 8.2 million. It is expected to grow to 9 million by 2030.
With its economy firing on all cylinders, big projects like the Time Warner Center and new Hearst Tower are getting both proposed and built.
?Three quarters of a million people moved back into the city. That is a very big number. It has really fueled the condominium market,? said William Wheaton, an MIT economist and real estate expert.
Meanwhile in Boston, expansion is modest at best right now.
Job growth has been a mixed bag, with Massachusetts, and its economic engine Boston, still recovering from the last recession. Overall, the state is still down 143,800 jobs from 2001.
Office vacancy rates are tightening, with small and midsized firms scooping up space and adding jobs. But many of the city?s flagship corporations have been acquired.
While the giants still here, like Fidelity Investments, are growing, they are also shifting jobs out to out-of-state campuses and beyond.
The one area Boston had seen strong growth in - housing - now appears to be cooling.
Outgoing City Hall development chief Mark Maloney recently boasted of the city?s big housing push - 17,000 new units since 2000.
But even that accomplishment may be in trouble, with condo sales slowing downtown and developers of planned projects weighing whether to start building.
What to make of this tale of two cities? What?s the missing ingredient in Boston?
One big answer, local executives said, is job growth, which helps fuel demand for both new housing and downtown towers alike.
Such growth provides the wind that helps move big projects forward, developers say.
?Job growth is the key,? said Thomas Meagher, head of Northeast Apartment Advisors, which tracks the Boston - and now New York - area housing markets. ?We are having some positive job growth, but it?s tepid.?
And both state and city government are behind the 8-ball when it comes to working to keep big companies in Boston, Stratouly, the Boston tower developer, argues.
He called Mayor Thomas M. Menino?s plan to form a City Hall sales group to market Boston to companies a step in the right direction.
?It?s better late than never,? Stratouly said. ?When you have this . . . exodus from the city . . . it is horrible. It is a wake-up call.?
NY Times chimes in...
... on Menino's City Hall proposal:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/25/us/25boston.html
... on Menino's City Hall proposal:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/25/us/25boston.html
I
IMAngry
Guest
Two points ...
Two points ...
I'm not against the architecture of City Hall ... but don't people get it??? It's impossible to navigate the interior!!! It's cold, dark, and I think, poorly constructed (surely there are drafts and leaks, everywhere). Plus, I assume there are more city employees than space, in the building.
It doesn't have adequate security, it doesn't have a welcoming front entrance, it's back entrance is blocked off, it doesn't have any parking, etc., etc., etc.
Also, looks as though Scott Van Voorhis basically just read a bunch of New York Times articles from the past couple weeks and regurgitated what they said - New York City is experiencing a renaissance, again. It's awesome down there.
The plans of Mr Bloomberg for the next thirty years are amazing - regarding housing, he has proposed that NYC build 165,000 units of housing within the next ten years, a lot of it new low and affordable housing. This past week he proposed the first of many permanent low-income housing projects. In addition, the city has just revised its tax abatement program for developers, allowing new condo owners the chance to delay paying the majority of their property tax for the first fifteen years; in return, developers have to build as much as 30% of the project as affordable housing.
Bloomberg's a real visionary. I'm amazed, each time I read the NY Times.
Have I mentioned they have a homicide rate 50% lower than Boston's? NYC (five boroughs): 515 murders, 8.2 million people. Boston: 72 murders, 596,000.
Two points ...
I'm not against the architecture of City Hall ... but don't people get it??? It's impossible to navigate the interior!!! It's cold, dark, and I think, poorly constructed (surely there are drafts and leaks, everywhere). Plus, I assume there are more city employees than space, in the building.
It doesn't have adequate security, it doesn't have a welcoming front entrance, it's back entrance is blocked off, it doesn't have any parking, etc., etc., etc.
Also, looks as though Scott Van Voorhis basically just read a bunch of New York Times articles from the past couple weeks and regurgitated what they said - New York City is experiencing a renaissance, again. It's awesome down there.
The plans of Mr Bloomberg for the next thirty years are amazing - regarding housing, he has proposed that NYC build 165,000 units of housing within the next ten years, a lot of it new low and affordable housing. This past week he proposed the first of many permanent low-income housing projects. In addition, the city has just revised its tax abatement program for developers, allowing new condo owners the chance to delay paying the majority of their property tax for the first fifteen years; in return, developers have to build as much as 30% of the project as affordable housing.
Bloomberg's a real visionary. I'm amazed, each time I read the NY Times.
Have I mentioned they have a homicide rate 50% lower than Boston's? NYC (five boroughs): 515 murders, 8.2 million people. Boston: 72 murders, 596,000.
Ron Newman
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Messages
- 8,395
- Reaction score
- 11
City Hall needs less security, not more. There should be no barriers between the citizens and the city government.
I
IMAngry
Guest
I agree Ron ...
Ron, I agree with you totally. It doesn't need the security it has. Seriously. It's offensive to me, as a citizen.
However, I needed to make my list long enough so it looked impressive, that's why I included the security line.
Ron, I agree with you totally. It doesn't need the security it has. Seriously. It's offensive to me, as a citizen.
However, I needed to make my list long enough so it looked impressive, that's why I included the security line.
palindrome
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 2,276
- Reaction score
- 124
Ron Newman said:
In a perfect world that would be ideal, but unfortunatly, we don't live in a perfect world, and there are people that would love to instill fear into the people by attacking city hall.
I believe there can be a decent balance of security and openess to the public.
B
bosma
Guest
Without a doubt we need a pedestrian bridge over Congress Street.
A bridge would not only help with pedestrian traffic over congress but also at State and Congress and Congress and Hanover.
If you removed 1 Lane from Congress traffic would be allot worse.
---
Usually the older a building is the more difficult it is to secure. A new building(a new City Hall) can be designed with security in mind.
A bridge would not only help with pedestrian traffic over congress but also at State and Congress and Congress and Hanover.
If you removed 1 Lane from Congress traffic would be allot worse.
---
Usually the older a building is the more difficult it is to secure. A new building(a new City Hall) can be designed with security in mind.
I
IMAngry
Guest
The Congress bridge
The Congress St bridge that was proposed as part of the City Hall renovation, several years ago, was terrible ridiculous.
Because, of course, they didn't just propose steps up to a bridge over to Faneuil Hall, they proposed two elevators - one on each sides - either out of convenience or, I believe, to follow ADA regulations.
It's too much effort for too little benefit, from what I can tell.
The Congress St bridge that was proposed as part of the City Hall renovation, several years ago, was terrible ridiculous.
Because, of course, they didn't just propose steps up to a bridge over to Faneuil Hall, they proposed two elevators - one on each sides - either out of convenience or, I believe, to follow ADA regulations.
It's too much effort for too little benefit, from what I can tell.
PerfectHandle
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 230
- Reaction score
- 27
UPDATE:
The top five traders on the City Hall Market are as follows:
1. bostonhistory
2. kmp1284
3. merper
4. statler
5. CH Stinks
Bostonhistory is still cleaning up and the three front-runners are Government Center with renovation, Government Center as is and South Boston Waterfront.
Get over there and get involved!
http://home.inklingmarkets.com/market/show/2851
[Note: I have no incentive whatsoever to promote this. I just think it's kind of fun. If it's getting annoying, let me know and I'll stop pushing it.]
The top five traders on the City Hall Market are as follows:
1. bostonhistory
2. kmp1284
3. merper
4. statler
5. CH Stinks
Bostonhistory is still cleaning up and the three front-runners are Government Center with renovation, Government Center as is and South Boston Waterfront.
Get over there and get involved!
http://home.inklingmarkets.com/market/show/2851
[Note: I have no incentive whatsoever to promote this. I just think it's kind of fun. If it's getting annoying, let me know and I'll stop pushing it.]
lexicon506
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 554
- Reaction score
- 262
I was thinking, would it be completely crazy to suggest building the new city hall on the now empty MassHort greenway parcels? It seems to make perfect sense. Across the street from the city's main transportation hub, still close to downtown and the financial district, also close enough the the SBW to have a positive effect there. The tunnel should easily support it if it'll support the NCAC and Boston Museum. And for the treehuggers, there are many ways in which an innovative building could avoid having to fully disrupt the greenway. IMO, a much better location than drydock 4 or even government center for that matter.
DudeUrSistersHot
Banned
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 315
- Reaction score
- 0
lexicon506 said:
Best idea I've heard in awhile...
Ron Newman
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Messages
- 8,395
- Reaction score
- 11
Is it big enough for City Hall?
czsz
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2007
- Messages
- 6,043
- Reaction score
- 6
I never understood why Old City Hall was abandoned, at least for the mayor's offices and some other vital administrative posts. Keeping these in a classic old building while relegating the rest of the city's machinery to a nearby office complex works in Paris and New York...and I would much rather point to the Second Empire building on School Street as City Hall than some behemoth on the Great Plains of the Seaport district.
kz1000ps
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2006
- Messages
- 8,818
- Reaction score
- 10,256
To severely paraphrase it, Old City Hall was seen as just as much the culprit of Boston's early/mid-20th century decline as were the politicians inside its walls, not to mention that in 1958 there was no appreciation for "classic old buildings."
PerfectHandle
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 230
- Reaction score
- 27
CITY HALL MARKET UPDATE:
The possibilities with stock price/percentage likelihood on the City Hall Market are as follows:
1. Government Center Without Renovation $27.76
2. South Boston Waterfront $24.53
3. Government Center with Renovation $23.94
4. Hynes Convention Center $4.58
5. Dudley Square $4.23
6. Filene's Building $4.23
7. Hayward Place $4.15
8. Somewhere Else $3.74
9. Air Rights Somewhere In Boston $2.81
The top five traders on the City Hall Market are as follows:
1. bostonhistory
2. kmp1284
3. merper
4. statler
5. CH Stinks
Get over there and get involved!
http://home.inklingmarkets.com/market/show/2851
[Note: I have no incentive whatsoever to promote this. I just think it's kind of fun. If it's getting annoying, let me know and I'll stop pushing it.]
The possibilities with stock price/percentage likelihood on the City Hall Market are as follows:
1. Government Center Without Renovation $27.76
2. South Boston Waterfront $24.53
3. Government Center with Renovation $23.94
4. Hynes Convention Center $4.58
5. Dudley Square $4.23
6. Filene's Building $4.23
7. Hayward Place $4.15
8. Somewhere Else $3.74
9. Air Rights Somewhere In Boston $2.81
The top five traders on the City Hall Market are as follows:
1. bostonhistory
2. kmp1284
3. merper
4. statler
5. CH Stinks
Get over there and get involved!
http://home.inklingmarkets.com/market/show/2851
[Note: I have no incentive whatsoever to promote this. I just think it's kind of fun. If it's getting annoying, let me know and I'll stop pushing it.]
bosdevelopment
Active Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 727
- Reaction score
- 2
I heard some grumblings yesterday about a number of different bidders for the current site. Price ranges were in the area of 285 million. This isn't confirmed, and for all I know this guy could be full of hot air but I don't understand why he'd lie about it. I'd assume it would go for 330 million but this price includes a covenant to make extensive infrastructure improvements.