City Hall Plaza Revamp | Government Center

[BeeLine]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

https://flic.kr/p/MBKqKj

https://flic.kr/p/MByaKR

 

[Justin7]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

https://flic.kr/p/N87Lcq

Perhaps a stupid question: Were these red brick blockades part of the original design? Do any of them serve an structural purpose?

 

[cca]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Perhaps a stupid question: Were these red brick blockades part of the original design? Do any of them serve an structural purpose?

Um ... that is the parking garage and other functions. Its occupiable building stuff inside.

See bottom picture lower right of the plan. The little square you see are skylights. You can also see the roof gridded with skylights in google maps.

cca

 

[West]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Um ... that is the parking garage and other functions. Its occupiable building stuff inside.

Right, so not easy to relocate in some cases, impossible to relocate in other cases. But I see no reason why it needs to stay those blank expanses of brick on the exterior. Maybe at the lowest level to shield the parking.

I've always thought the upper parts of City Hall look pretty great. It's those blank expanses of brick lower down, in conjunction with the equally dead expanses of brick on the plaza, that make it so cold and ugly, makes it seem like it's looming over a kill zone waiting to pounce on some innocent victim.

Tear that brick off, or most of it, replace it with something that better interacts with the details of the upper three floors, and this could be a fantastic building. Whatever that replacement is, it should have windows into any interior space that isn't just cars. Get rid of that cold shoulder effect. Improving the plaza would be hugely helpful too, of course.

 

[citylover94]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

I think it could be interesting to replace the brick with clear glass to try and give the impression that the upper part of the building is suspended/floating above the ground.

 

[cca]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Right, so not easy to relocate in some cases, impossible to relocate in other cases. But I see no reason why it needs to stay those blank expanses of brick on the exterior. Maybe at the lowest level to shield the parking.

I've always thought the upper parts of City Hall look pretty great. It's those blank expanses of brick lower down, in conjunction with the equally dead expanses of brick on the plaza, that make it so cold and ugly, makes it seem like it's looming over a kill zone waiting to pounce on some innocent victim.

Tear that brick off, or most of it, replace it with something that better interacts with the details of the upper three floors, and this could be a fantastic building. Whatever that replacement is, it should have windows into any interior space that isn't just cars. Get rid of that cold shoulder effect. Improving the plaza would be hugely helpful too, of course.

Anything is possible with will ... and money.

cca

 

[whighlander]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Right, so not easy to relocate in some cases, impossible to relocate in other cases. But I see no reason why it needs to stay those blank expanses of brick on the exterior. Maybe at the lowest level to shield the parking.

I've always thought the upper parts of City Hall look pretty great. It's those blank expanses of brick lower down, in conjunction with the equally dead expanses of brick on the plaza, that make it so cold and ugly, makes it seem like it's looming over a kill zone waiting to pounce on some innocent victim.

Tear that brick off, or most of it, replace it with something that better interacts with the details of the upper three floors, and this could be a fantastic building. Whatever that replacement is, it should have windows into any interior space that isn't just cars. Get rid of that cold shoulder effect. Improving the plaza would be hugely helpful too, of course.

West -- that's not parking for cars -- the small garage is below the plaza level -- that brick bunker is parking for paper

When city hall was built there were no such things as databases or servers -- there were only file cabinets and ledger books

Indeed between the time of Old City Hall [1865] and the current City Hall [1968] the principal innovations to affect the bureaucracy were:

• women started to work as clerks with fountain pens and typists with typewriters in place of men with quills [imagine Scrooge in Dickens].
• Well Ok for you purists -- the telephone and electric light came in
• later faxing and copying had some impact

However, the records of the city were still mostly on paper, and the entries were made with ink -- ok mostly typed on an electric typewriter. However, People came to city hall to pay for things in cash or they mailed cash or new fangled things like checks to an office where the letters had to be opened and the checks collected.

Almost none of the above is relevant -- which is why most of the building which is a huge concrete bunker faced with brick could and should be demolished -- just like the O'Neill Federal paper bunker.

The world is changing so rapidly and Boston higher educational establishments, medical enterprises, museums, laboratories, some factories and even the private sector offices are leading the charge -- not so the bureaucracies

For example consider the Navy -- amazingly bureaucratic [it has many Bureaus] -- However, things are even changing in a mega way with ships -- and you don't need to visit the USS Constitution as reference point

Go to Quincy and see the USS Salem [now a Naval Shipbuilding Museum] she was ordered during the height of the war in 1943; her keel was laid down on the 4th of July in 1945. Obviously, she was a bit late for WWII and since she stayed in the Atlantic, she missed Korea. Because she was built to carry 9 very large 8 inch guns, she was decommissioned before Vietnam got going. Indeed she never fired a shot in anger.

But -- the most interesting facts have to do with her size and crew:

Built by: Bethlehem Steel Fore River, Quincy MA
Machinery
Four General Electric geared turbines.
Four Babcock & Wilcox boilers, 615psi/850f.
Rated 120000 shp (120064 as measured during trials)
Four screws.
4- 1500kw steam turbine powered generators
with 2 - 850kw Diesel auxiliary Generators
Length Overall: 716' 6"
Maximum Beam: 76' 4 1/2"
Standard Displacement: 17,000 tons
Full Load Displacement: 21,500 tons
Rated Speed: 33.5 knots (achieved 32.58 during trails)

Compliment: 109 Officers, 1,690 enlisted

Salem had radar for air search [mesh shaped into a trough shape mounted high on the mast] and also radar fire control with analog computers and people doing the calculations. Her major innovation was that she could fire 8" projectiles from what was essentially a giant semi-automatic rifle -- no separate bags of powder and shells and a much smaller gun crew than needed in a WWII Heavy Cruiser. She also had a helicopter.

Now compare her to the newest ship in the Navy: USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000)

Length-600 ft (182.9 m)
Beam-80.7 ft (24.6 m)
Draft-27.6 ft (8.4 m)
Displacement: 14,564 tons
Integrated Power System (IPS)
Gas turbines driving generators 78 MW (105,000 shp)
2 propellers each electrically driven
Speed: 33.5 knots (62.0 km/h; 38.6 mph)

Sensors and processing systems:
AN/SPY-3 Multi-Function Radar (MFR) (X-band, scanned array)
Volume Search Radar (VSR) (S-band, scanned array)
Armament: 20 × MK 57 VLS modules, with 4 vertical launch cells in each module, 80 cells total. Each cell can hold one or more missiles, depending on the size of the missiles, including:
RIM-66 Standard Missile
RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)
BGM-109 Tomahawk
RUM-139 VL-Asroc
2 × 155 mm Advanced Gun System with LRLAP
920 × 155 mm total; 600 in automated store + Auxiliary store room with up to 320 rounds (non-automatic) and 70-100 LRLAP rounds.
2 × Mk 46 30 mm gun (GDLS)
Aircraft carried:
2 SH-60 LAMPS helicopters or 1 MH-60R helicopter
3 MQ-8 Fire Scout VTUAV

Complement: 142

Zumwalt's X-band phased array electronically scanned radar is essentially a super computer connected to the radar hidden in the strange shape deckhouse.

The guns are hidden in the two strange shaped bumps forward of the deckhouse. The missiles are all hidden below deck.

The two ships are similar in size and displacement [although they don't look much alike] -- BUT one has more than 10X the crew of the other -- indeed Salem had nearly as many officers as the total crew of Zumwalt. The other has more than 10X the electrical generation capacity. Those two facts are an indicator of what has happened and is happening.

West -- I like the idea of tearing off the brick -- except underneath is reinforced concrete.

So how about suspending the city council, mayors office and a few other things hanging in a glass box -- kinda like some Houdini Magic Escape Trick

Level the Bunker and like some of the facadectomies during construction -- leave the upper part [suitably refacaded in glass] floating on a steel frame with a park underneath

 

[statler]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

West -- that's not parking for cars -- the small garage is below the plaza level -- that brick bunker is parking for paper

When city hall was built there were no such things as databases or servers -- there were only file cabinets and ledger books

Indeed between the time of Old City Hall [1865] and the current City Hall [1968] the principal innovations to affect the bureaucracy were:

• women started to work as clerks with fountain pens and typists with typewriters in place of men with quills [imagine Scrooge in Dickens].
• Well Ok for you purists -- the telephone and electric light came in
• later faxing and copying had some impact

However, the records of the city were still mostly on paper, and the entries were made with ink -- ok mostly typed on an electric typewriter. However, People came to city hall to pay for things in cash or they mailed cash or new fangled things like checks to an office where the letters had to be opened and the checks collected.

Almost none of the below is relevant -- which is why most of the building which is a huge concrete bunker faced with brick could and should be demolished -- just like the O'Neill Federal paper bunker.

{snip}

Fixed that for you.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Fixed that for you.

Staler -- Thanks

 

[West]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Fixed that for you.

Outstandingly played.

And yeah, if the lower levels behind that brick are only holding files, by all means let's move those files digital where the law allows and off-site for the relatively few that must stay hard copy (probably a lot less at city hall needs to stay hard copy than at the county courthouse).

Open that lower level up wide.

 

[statler]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Back in the day ablarc wrote a wonderful defense of City Hall. I can't find it but I remember him writing something about how he interpreted the red brick as an element that was used to represent the soil that grounds the building or something like that. He, of course did a much better job of explaining it. If anyone has a copy of it, I'd love to read it again.

 

[cca]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Wait ... I have been in that lowest level in which there is indeed ... a parking garage.

And ... by the way. I love ships.

cca

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Back in the day ablarc wrote a wonderful defense of City Hall....If anyone has a copy of it, I'd love to read it again.

Likely in this thread.

It's a treasure-trove of intelligent, insightful thoughts about the best (and worst) of my favorite era of Boston's evolution.

Thank you, statler, for inadvertently encouraging me to revisit it!

 

[nm88]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Likely in this thread.

It's a treasure-trove of intelligent, insightful thoughts about the best (and worst) of my favorite era of Boston's evolution.

Thank you, statler, for inadvertently encouraging me to revisit it!

Yes, thank you.

 

[statler]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

I dread reading my old posts. I avoid it whenever possible.

 

[odurandina]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

Wait ... I have been in that lowest level in which there is indeed ... a parking garage.

I have a question; where is the lowest parking garage level in the city.... and how far is it below sea level?

 

[Downburst]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

I have a question; where is the lowest parking garage level in the city.... and how far is it below sea level?

That'd be the garage at Post Office Square, which goes up to 80 feet below grade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Square,_Boston

 

[cca]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

I have a question; where is the lowest parking garage level in the city.... and how far is it below sea level?

That I don't know. just been in the one on street level.

cca

 

[Jouhou]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

How did we start talking about boats? Btw Whigh I don't think those specs on the zumwalt are completely accurate. For public releases the Navy likes to say "in excess of" (insert speed) for a max speed because especially with stealth craft exact specs can make it easier for an adversary to spot you.

 

[cden4]

Re: Offical City Hall Plaza Proposals

There is a good writeup about City Hall in the book "Heroic" about concrete architecture in Boston. I recall the thought at the time of design of City Hall was that the red bricks represent "old Boston" and the concrete represents the modern "new Boston." The bricks rise out of the plaza and transition from old to new. That was the idea at least.