Copley Place Expansion and Tower | Back Bay

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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Boston.com
Back Bay neighbors question Copley tower development
September 30, 2011 10:14 AM

By Sara Brown, Town Correspondent

The Copley Place tower project, a $500 million project adding residential units, new retail space, and a new landmark to the Boston skyline, was criticized Thursday by some Back Bay residents, who raised concern about how the tower will impact wind, light, and affordable housing in the neighborhood.

The Simon Property group plans to build the 47-story tower at Copley Place, across from the MBTA's Back Bay station and over the Massachusetts Turnpike. When completed, it will be the largest residential building in Boston, with 318 residences rising above an expanded, flagship Neiman Marcus store and a glass-enclosed garden with cafes and restaurants, more retail space, and space for residents to gather.

At a Thursday night meeting hosted by the Boston Redevelopment Authority, Back Bay and South End residents, including several from the nearby Tent City apartments, said they worried about how the development would impact their neighborhood.

"I'm really concerned about a lot of aspects [of the project]," said Jim Hill, chair of the Neighborhood Association of Back Bay. He noted that Back Bay residents made up a good portion of the more than 75 people filling the meeting room at the Boston Public Library.

The Back Bay has more than 2,000 residents, "most of whom live north of this project in the shadow," he added. "We walk these streets."

He added that the aerial photos of the project, which show a narrow tower appearing west of the Hancock Tower, aren't useful to him. "I will never personally see that in my life unless I"m in an airplane."

"I'm very concerned about the impact on people with disabilities in the area," said John Kelly, a member of the Boston Commission for Persons with Disabilities. He pointed out that the presentation about the project did not mention people with disabilities, and existing brick sidewalks are easily damaged, and missing bricks make it hard for people with disabilities to traverse the area.

"I urge you to come meet with our commission," he said.

Resident Steve Wintermeier said he was concerned that financial problems would hamper the project, getting rid of any benefit to the community in terms of jobs and improved streets.

"We've seen too many of these and that's why we're concerned," he said, mentioning the Big Dig and Columbus Center.

Jack Hobbs, CEO of R.F. Walsh Collaborative Partners, said the company intends to complete the project and will not depend on public subsidies to do so. He also said that the project will pump money into Boston's economy with temporary and permanent jobs, $250,000 for public art, and some improvements to the Southwest Corridor Park.

With increased shade and wind cause for concern for some residents, the report on the project's impact said that from October to December, the shadow of the building passes across Copley Square Park in less than two hours--an amount that is still problematic to some residents.

Tent City, which is to the south of the building, will not be impacted, according to the developers.

Though some said the 5 percent affordable housing located within the building is a "pittance," Hobbs said the city's affordable housing requirement will be fulfilled within the neighborhood.

As for the 318 residences? Hobbs said they couldn't name the price yet, but "they will be expensive."

While most speakers aired concerns, at least one resident said he was excited about the project. Ryan Smith, who lives at Dartmouth Street and Columbus Avenue, said he wanted to "be one voice to say I think this is a fantastic project."

"The reason a lot of us choose to live in Boston, in the city, as opposed to Wellesley or Framingham, is projects like these," he said. "I appreciate my neighbors continuing to ask for more...I think it's a great project."

The public comment period on the project ends on October 31, 2011.
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Ok; Ryan Smith what is your handle here?
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

DZH22 said:
Now what we need is something to surpass the 614' barrier in the financial district. I have a "concept tower" in the works for the site of Menino's failed 1000' vision. I am going to try to recruit a person who has created beautiful renders of the WTC to hopefully render this concept before I share it with you all (and with the mayor's office).
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Do it! And make sure you show it to Menino; we all know he's easily seduced by shiny pretty renderings, so your couple of images could be enough for him to start stumping for it.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

BostonUrbEx said:
"Elitist bricks" and southerly shadows. The best and worst of public meetings, haha. :)
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Look with neutrinos zipping from Geneva (CERN) to the Opera Detector at Gran Sasso, 730 km away in central Italy in 60 nsec less than light -- anything is relativistically possible

23 September 2011

The paper "Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the OPERA detector in the CNGS beam" is available online in the arXiv repository (arXiv:1109.4897): http://operaweb.lngs.infn.it/spip.php?rubrique14
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

It looks like the BRA is in cahoots with the developer. Simon would not this deep into a plaza design if the Mayuh and the BRA have not given a thumbs up.

And there are some who oppose a winter garden:

Some neighbors have questioned the idea of replacing the existing open plaza with a winter garden, saying the structure does not bear the hallmarks of a New England public space, feeling more like it could be in Houston, Los Angeles, or a dozen other cities.
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http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...-park-entry/edCLdFsHO4H3V10ZNbZjeN/story.html

Frankly, the news that there is a sizable group of polar masochists in Boston surprised me.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

isn't the idea of a winter garden to emulate the climate of a warmer-weather area?
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I think the original idea was to have a year round interior garden, where deciduous plants wouldn't freeze.

The Winter Garden in the Winter Palace

Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Winter-Garden.jpg


Lot colder along the banks of the Neva than along the banks of the Charles. Actually kind of surprised there would be enough winter sunlight to keep the plants going.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

The full Globe article.

For a casual passerby, it is easy to overlook the entrance of the Southwest Corridor Park, one of Boston’s largest and most prominent public spaces.

It presents itself along Dartmouth Street like an alley between commercial buildings, offering little indication of what lies just a few feet away: a plush, linear park that stretches for 4.7 miles, running from the Back Bay to Jamaica Plain.

That is all about to change.

Under a plan to build Boston’s tallest residential tower on nearby land, developer Simon Property Group and area residents are discussing construction of a striking glass gateway or public art display that would boldly announce the park’s entrance.

“It’s going to be something that draws your attention and causes you to cross the street from Back Bay Station,’’ said Jack Hobbs, president of The Collaborative Partners, which is managing the $500 million project for Simon Property. “Once you get there, there will be a pathway to invite you into the park itself.’’

The exact nature of the gateway has yet to be decided, as Simon gathers feedback from the city and neighbors. But the planned upgrades are part of a broader array of changes that many neighborhood residents hope will fundamentally alter public spaces at the edge of Copley Place that have long felt barren and unaccommodating.

Simon, which is promising the upgrades to help smooth the way for its 47-story residential tower, is also proposing to improve the chaotic pedestrian crossings in the area and build a glass-encased “winter garden’’ at the corner of Dartmouth and Stuart streets with retail kiosks, seating areas, and space for music performances and other events.

Some neighbors have questioned the idea of replacing the existing open plaza with a winter garden, saying the structure does not bear the hallmarks of a New England public space, feeling more like it could be in Houston, Los Angeles, or a dozen other cities. Others have welcomed the notion of a gathering space protected from harsh weather and wind.

Kairos Shen, chief planner for the Boston Redevelopment Authority, said the agency is working with the developer to ensure the garden reflects the culture of the city and does not become a glorified entrance to the Copley Place shopping center.

“There is an opportunity to create something that complements the outdoor spaces in that area of the city, so it becomes like Copley Square itself,’’ Shen said. “The goal and the challenge is to make it more like an extension of the street than an extension of the mall.’’

The winter garden would transition into an expanded Neiman Marcus store and Copley Place’s main retail galleries, which would become the base for Simon’s multitiered residential tower. The tower, designed by Elkus Manfredi Architects, is planned to contain about 318 new residences; the developer has not specified whether they will be apartments or condominiums.

If approved by the BRA and state environmental officials, it would be the largest building to be built in the city in several decades.

While city planners and residents noted the project’s unusual size, they said it provides an equally rare opportunity to improve surrounding sidewalks and plazas that are marred by uneven brick walkways, poor signage, and a lack of consistent activity.

“It’s amazing how many people live in this neighborhood and don’t know there is a park there,’’ said Franco Campanello, president of the Southwest Corridor Park Conservancy. He said the park’s entrance across from the Back Bay MBTA Station needs new seating, cafe tables, better landscaping, and public art to cause people to pause and explore the area.

“They have to reconfigure the space.’’ he said. “It needs to be somewhat of a refuge away from the noise of Dartmouth, yet it also needs to maintain a sense of a pedestrian thoroughfare.’’

Negotiations over the tower and park designs are expected to continue for several weeks. A citizens advisory committee is reviewing the plans, as is the BRA, which is expected to vote on whether to approve the project later in the fall.
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

The money would be better spent paying for 3 or 4 mounted police to patrol the park.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Why? There is no significant crime problem here.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

" ome neighbors have questioned the idea of replacing the existing open plaza with a winter garden, saying the structure does not bear the hallmarks of a New England public space, feeling more like it could be in Houston, Los Angeles, or a dozen other cities. Others have welcomed the notion of a gathering space protected from harsh weather and wind. "

I remember the same type of comments when the folks running the Pru suggested enclosing the open-air mall next to the tower and creating todays-- year round complex

Boston because of its lattitute and location on the coast -- just happends to be a place where there are a few months when a pedestrian rally enjoys shelter from the cold and wind and a few days when you really enjoy some cool and dry and out of the blistering hot sun and sweltering humidity

the Pru more than any other place in Boston meets that year-round challenge -- more winter garden like spaces will be welcomed by most residents of New England as well as US and international visitors.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Does anything in the Copley area (excluding the 100+ year old churches) have any of the trappings of a clasic New England public space? What does that even mean? Copley Square is the classic New England Public Space.... or maybe City Hall Plaza. Should that be the basis? This is public space, and it's right at the seat of the city.

But, since this is the land of "no change", let's make it look like every other public space so that the visitor doesn't really know which space they are in. To hell with individuality....maybe all the Star Bellied Sneetches all live in the Back Bay now.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

SeamusMcFly said:
Does anything in the Copley area (excluding the 100+ year old churches) have any of the trappings of a clasic New England public space? What does that even mean? Copley Square is the classic New England Public Space.... or maybe City Hall Plaza. Should that be the basis? This is public space, and it's right at the seat of the city.

But, since this is the land of "no change", let's make it look like every other public space so that the visitor doesn't really know which space they are in. To hell with individuality....maybe all the Star Bellied Sneetches all live in the Back Bay now.
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Seamus -- if you want that -- go to to Chandigarh India -- master planned by Le Corbusier -- several dozen districts -- each with an identical network of roads bound together by beautiful landscaped rotaries

there are a few unique venues where there are parks that are unique -- but the rest -- it could have been fabricated by step and repeat photolithography
from the wikipedia article

" Taking over from Albert Mayer, Le Corbusier produced a plan for Chandigarh that conformed to the modern city planning principles of Congrès International d'Architecture Moderne CIAM, in terms of division of urban functions, an anthropomorphic plan form, and a hierarchy of road and pedestrian networks. This vision of Chandigarh, contained in the innumerable conceptual maps on the drawing board together with notes and sketches had to be translated into brick and mortar. Le Corbusier retained many of the seminal ideas of Mayer and Nowicki, like the basic framework of the master plan and its components: The Capitol, City Center, besides the University, Industrial area, and linear parkland. Even the neighborhood unit was retained as the basic module of planning. However, the curving outline of Mayer and Nowicki was reorganized into a mesh of rectangles, and the buildings were characterized by an "honesty of materials". Exposed brick and boulder stone masonry in its rough form produced unfinished concrete surfaces, in geometrical structures. This became the architectural form characteristic of Chandigarh, set amidst landscaped gardens and parks. "
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I fail to understand why Houston or Los Angeles would be held up as paragons of winter garden-dom. Do they have them? Do they need them? I would think Boston is EXACTLY where winter gardens make sense. :confused: True, it's not olde worlde New Englande, but then neither is indoor plumbing.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

UrbanDozer said:
Funny.. when I think of a nimby, that's pretty much how I picture them to be.
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Do people even have backyards in Back Bay? I like the use of the word "they" as in "they want to build a tower..." which seems implies some sort of a conspiracy. The thing that gets me is that this guy cares more about getting people to watch his home made album recording than he does about the tower, else he would seek a different forum for expression.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

"In the middle of Back Bay / right up to the sky"

RIGHT ACROSS THE FUCKING STREET FROM THE JHT!!!

It's seriously as if this tower is being built on Newbury St.
 
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I just shared this on my facebook; I can't get over the folk song. If more people listened to/watched it then there would be wider support for this project.
 
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